Need to start accumulating information

[Jay_Bunny]

When I was talking to my mother last night, she said she wanted me to go to the petstore for some dog food....and get a price on their bearded dragons. If they had any and it was a decent price, she wanted one. I told her not to get one from the petstore and to wait till I go to the next reptile show (in March). She agreed but now I'm thinking about it.

My mom has a habit of getting an animal, getting tired of it, and finding a new home for it. We had bearded dragons in the past but it was mostly my stepfather and I who cared for them. My mom likes them but I'm not sure how well she'd really take care of it. When I had a little beardie at her house (she allowed me to keep it there since my grandmother hated reptiles) and she put crushed walnut shells as its substrate. It was only a juvie and got impacted and after many vet visits and eventually surgery, he had to be put down because he was too weak to live.

So now I'm worried that she's either going to give the beardie bad living conditions or she's going to get tired of it and give it away.

If she gets one and eventually does care for it badly or wants to get rid of it, I will most likely take it in, seeing as I can't stand to see an animal suffer because of my mother. So I want to start getting as much information as I can about them. So a few questions for starters.

[Jay_Bunny]

Housing:

What size tank is appropriate for a baby, juvie, and adult bearded dragon? What substrate is appropriate for each life stage? Water sources? (I've heard some beardies won't drink from standing water, it has to be moving.) Tank decor? What would a bearded dragon need as a baby, juvie, and adult to provide basking areas, shaded areas, ect.

Temps/Humidity:

I can find needed temps on a caresheet. What humidity is required for these lizards? Do they require misting? What humidity level is too low? What temp is too low? Too high?

Feeding:

What insects do they normally chow on other than mealworms and crickets. I've heard you need to chop the heads on mealworms because the dragons don't chew the worm that well and the heads could still bite through their stomach. How many insects does a baby, juvie, and adult go through in a day? What other kinds of food should they be eating. How often should you dust insects?

Lighting:

I've read that they require UVB lighting as well as a basking light. What should the light cycle be like?

[icygirl]

First off, I highly recommend visiting www.beardeddragon.org, an extremely helpful beardie community!!

Housing: Aquariums and heat lamps work best for beardies, since they don't need much in the way of humidity and they need pretty high temperatures & a basking spot. Start with a 20 long for a baby or juvie, and as he grows bigger, you will want a minimum of a 40g breeder for an adult, or larger depending on the animal. As for when to do the switch? I believe you'll be able to tell - most juvie beardies are fairly active and he will begin to look cramped as he is jumping around his viv.

Humidity: I wouldn't worry too much about it. The only thing is, they can be prone to dehydration because most beardies won't drink out of a water dish regularly (you can OCCASIONALLY catch them at it). Every couple days you want to either mist the beardie's head a lot so he licks the water off his mouth, or use a pipet or eyedropper to drip it onto his mouth. You can also give them baths semi-regularly, which helps a lot with this. (It's debated how often beardies should be given baths, but I would say once a week is plenty... maybe even once every two weeks if you are hydrating him via the first two methods often.)

Feeding: Don't use mealworms except as an OCCASIONAL treat. They are very unhealthy and lizards can't digest them well. Crickets and superworms are fine as long as they are sized appropriately (you will find more about sizing insects on caresheets). Dust insects with calcium powder EVERY TIME you feed them - it's not hard, just stick the bugs in a plastic bag, sprinkle some dust, and shake'n'bake. You also will want to dust with a vitamin supplement once a week. The best ones to use are Rep-Cal calcium powder and Herptivite - I am not just spouting brand names here - these are hailed as the best all over the beardie keeping world.

Adult beardies will eat around 25 insects a day, separated into two feedings. Juvies will eat more than this. Some people say they feed their juvies 100 crickets in one feeding; however, I found that 30 crickets a day was appropriate. You can't "feed until full" because beardies are opportunistic feeders and will eat constantly if you let them. Know that you are looking at buying in bulk in the future and caring for a tubful of bugs.

A great alternative to crickets are roaches, specifically Blaptica dubia roaches. They don't climb, don't chirp, don't smell, don't fly, and are just as healthy as crickets. (Again, dust everything!)

Beardies are omnivores and need veggies offered daily: http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtrem...Nutrition.html This is a fantastic resource for veggie nutrition facts for beardies. Juvies will only munch a little at their veggies, while adults eat about 50% of their diet in veggies.

Lighting: 12/12 light cycle. Use a reliable UV-emitting strip bulb and an appropriate wattage incandescent heat bulb. "Appropriate wattage" means whatever necessary to get your temps right... usually around 100W worked for me. You should also supplement with a UTH that is on 24/7... this will help keep temps up at night (you usually won't need a night bulb).

Whew... well hope that helped!!

[Michelle.C]

Housing for a baby Bearded Dragon should be around a ten gallon. In a larger tank they can get lost, forgetting where their basking spots, etc are. For a juvenile housing size should probably be the same as an adults, minimum 40 gallon breeder (36"x18"x16").

As far as humidity, it's important that it isn't too high. Levels of around 30% are fine. I do recommend misting your Bearded Dragon twice to three times weekly, it helps with hydration. Also, soaking once a week will also be great. It's true that most Bearded Dragon won't drink from standing water, which is where the misting/soakings help. I find when you are misting, if you take a syringe and drip it on their mouth, it will teach them to drink from that. That way you can better manage keeping them hydrated. You can add a water dish though, it never hurts. Some of them will naturally soak/drink from them, you never know .

I've never heard of mealwoms chewing through their stomachs. I have heard of them being not quiet ideal as far as what's best for your Beardie though. Their meat to carapace ratio is horrible, sometimes causing impactions in the animals.

You should provide Bearded Dragons with a daily salad. The best greens are Collard, Turnip and Mustard Greens. You can include foods like Squash and Dandelion Greens on occasion too.

Here is an awesome nutrition chart for Bearded Dragons. http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtrem...Nutrition.html

As far as insects, I feed my Beardie Lobster roaches no wider than the width between his eyes. Otherwise impaction problems can occur. Feed them their salad and insects daily.

Baby Beardies should get calcium supplement daily and vitamin supplement 4-5 times a week. As they age, less supplement is required. Adults require calcium 4-5 times a week and multi-vitamins 2-3 times a week. I use the multi-vitamin "Dragon Dust" and the calcium supplement "Rep-cal" it is w/D3 and phosphorus free.

Light cycles should be 12/12. A Reptile Glo 8.0 or Repti-sun 10.0. Basking spot should be 95-105, the other end of the tank 75-85. Dragons have to have a basking spot at least at around 95 or higher, they require temperatures of 95 give or take to digest their food.

[Jay_Bunny]

Thanks a bunch! Caring for bugs isn't a problem for me. I've had to deal with chirping crickets before. But the roach idea sounds interesting. Would they be a replacement for the crickets or can I alternate? Where would I find roaches. If I did end up with a bearded dragon, I would probably breed my own insects seeing as they are expensive to buy. Seeing as I also have rats and sugar gliders that would probably enjoy crickets or other insects, it would make more sense to just breed them rather than paying 11c per cricket. And going through 25-30 a day per beardie, thats a lot of money in insects. So where could I get info on these roaches you speak of?

A question on substrate. I refuse to put any beardie adult or juvie on crushed walnut shell substrate. I've used the cage carpet before and its just a pain to clean. What others would you suggest. I'm worried about impaction so I would like to stay away from anything that could lead to that.

On heat elements and lights. Would using an infared bulb for the heating element be ok? That way I could keep it on all the time and use the UV light only during the day. I use the infared bulbs on all my tanked reptiles and it keeps temps in the correct zone. Would beardies require heating from below or are the bulbs ok to use?

[icygirl]

Almost forgot... Decor and substrate.

Some people swear by newspaper and paper towels. A lot of people say sand causes impaction. Personally, I cannot stand using newspaper/paper towels as substrate for beardies because they poop every day and it's a pain to clean it out. Plus, a lot of times the poop is runny and leaks through to the aquarium bottom, stinking up everything and making a royal mess.

Here's my solution. I used a certain type of sand called Reptilite, which has round sand grains that supposedly won't harm a beardie's organs if ingested. This sucks up the liquids from the poops so it doesn't smell as much, and you can spot-clean it. Secondly, I bought an extra 10g ($12 at Petco) and fed him outside the enclosure. Feeding outside the enclosure is useless for snakes, but makes more sense for beardies. If you feed in their enclosure, they WILL associate your hand reaching in with dinnertime, making it frustrating to try and get them out. (Although getting bitten is usually pretty painless!) Plus, you won't have a chance for them to ingest substrate and get impacted.

As for decor? They don't need a hide box except maybe during brumation if you are wintering your animal. Just plenty of branches to play on, and ground space too.

Edit: I have heard a lot of people that have had success with playsand you can get at a hardware store - it's much cheaper than specialty reptile sand. You just need to make sure to clean it properly first.

[icygirl]

So where could I get info on these roaches you speak of?

The roaches need to be ordered online. Google it and you'll find lots of online roach vendors out there that will deliver to your door. They are a replacement for crickets.

A question on substrate. I refuse to put any beardie adult or juvie on crushed walnut shell substrate. I've used the cage carpet before and its just a pain to clean. What others would you suggest. I'm worried about impaction so I would like to stay away from anything that could lead to that.

Never use walnut shells for anything; they're just terrible bedding for almost any animal. See above post for my personal opinion on bedding. Also, never use Excavator or whatever it's called (new product on the market) - it dries into an impossible-to-clean rocky surface...

On heat elements and lights. Would using an infared bulb for the heating element be ok? That way I could keep it on all the time and use the UV light only during the day. I use the infared bulbs on all my tanked reptiles and it keeps temps in the correct zone. Would beardies require heating from below or are the bulbs ok to use?

You don't want to have your basking light on all the time. You want your beardie to have a sense of night and day, both in temperatures and in lighting. This way he will know when it's night time and will get into a healthy sleeping/waking routine. If you had a constant basking heat all the time, he may wake up more easily from sounds and lights if you are doing things in the same room.

[Crazydude]

Housing:

A baby 6-10" can be housed in a 20L (30"x12x12), as they get older a 40B(36x18x16) is better, as an adult you want at least 6sq. feet of floor space, In my opinion, you want a 4x2x2 or bigger for most dragons, smaller, or less active dragons can live in a 40B or 3x2x2, but with dragons, as you probably know, bigger is better. Just dont stress out a baby, I went 40B for a 9" baby, to now tomarrow she gets a 5x2x2 custom tank (shes 16 months, 18").

Substrate:
Tile (ceramic or slate, that is textured, and perfurably sealed)
Reptile carpet
Paper towels
Newspaper (unprinted better)
Non-adhesive shelf liner

An adult can live on playsand that is washed and sifted.

Avoid calcium sands, vitamin sands, colored sands, walnut shell, gravel, corn on the cob, wood chips ext.

Non particle are best IMO, as sand isnt great to dig in, is messy and a breeding ground for bacteria. I love Tile, and use paper towels as a quarenteen substrate when my dragon is sick.

Water:
Most dont drink from standing water thats correct, For a baby, try to get them used to baths, Bath them at least 2x a week (some bath daily), and on non bath days, mist their head or use a needle-less seringe/dropper to give water, dont mist the enclosure, just them, so taking them out may be needed. I dont use a water bowl.

Decor:

For babies, the less complicated the better, as they get older, you can get more elaborate, In my dragons new tank there is a basking rock, driftwood, tile, a salad bowl and a cave, and i am going to get a few fake plants, but thats an adult,

as a baby i had paper towels, a rock, a food bowl, and thats really it.

Basking/Shaded areas:

They need at least 1 good basking area, temp 100-110, dont go over 115, and under 95 (in farenheight). you want uvb hitting them when basking, so a long strip is good, or a MVB (certain bulbs are good, ill list below).

Babies caves are not recomended, as they hide alot, as they get older, caves can be given, expecially for brumation if they do. They are good if the dragon doesnt constantly go in there. Cool side should be 75-83ish.


Temps/Humidity:

Temps, 95-115, i perfer 105 or so, but differnet dragons like different temps.

Whats important about this is a good thermomiter, a digital with a probe needs to be left on the basking spot for 45 minutes to get a good reading, A tempgun is even better.

Humidity is really not as crutial with beardies as with some snakes, you dont want it wet, or humid as in feeling it, but not super dry. To low their inner ear can dry out, to high there is a risk of a URI. 30-50 is a good range. But i dont really measure as i do with my ball, its normally fine unless you are in a extreme weather area.

Feeding:

Babies/juvies:

Normally you should feed 2-3x a day as much as they will eat in 10-15 minutes, normally thats between 30-100 crickets PER DAY. Its alot of food, so i ordered online.

AVOID mealworms, they have no nutritional value that is benifitial to beardies, they have hard shells and are a impaction risk. But the head thing is a myth, they cant.

Dusting with calcium 4-5x a week and vitamins 1-2x a week, I use rep-cal. The type of calcium depends on the lighting, a florecent get the pink label calcium, a MVB the green label is better. and then for vitamins herperative (or similar) blue label.

They also should get a daily salad, you can dust this instead if they eat it, This should consist of a mix of things, like dark leafy greens.

Im not sure on this forums link policy, but go to beautifuldragons.com, and click on nutrition, theres a huge list of everything you can and cant think of, and if its good or not.

Adult:

Daily salad,

also 30-50 live feeders a week, spread out in any way,

Dust calcium 2-3x a week, vitamins 1-2x a week.

You can feed these true superworms once the dragon is over 15-16", these are healthier then mealworms but similar, avoid giant mealworms, and these are NOT refridgerated.

Insects:

there are a range of things, here are a few things that are good as staples:

Crickets
Roaches (feeder roaches)
Silkworms
Hornworms
Butterworms
Pheonix worms

All can be bought online, i can give you links to good places if you need.

Adults can also eat superworms.

For treats, waxworms can be given.

Lighting:

They need UVB to survive, They are sun loving animals, probably more then almost any other reptile, they are slowly parilized legs up without it, and their bones turn soft. (MBD).

Anyway, the problem is there are tons of bulbs that are dangerous because the field is unregulated. There are two good types of UVB bulbs, Florecent TUBES and Mercury vapor bulbs.

Florecent tubes:

Great for smaller enclosures, a few safe models, not very strong output so they generally require to be close to the animal (6-10 inches). They need to be replaced every 6 months.

Good ones are the (in order strongest to weakest):
Repti-sun 10.0 by zoo-med
Repti-sun 5.0 by zoo-med
Repti-glo 8.0 by exo-terra

The rest are not good, and either too weak, or dangerous.

Mecury vapor bulbs (MVB's)
These are much stronger, depending on bulb, range from the the strenght of florecents, to the stength of the sun, these usually require at least 12" away from the animal, sometimes more, And they produce heat too, Sometimes they are dim and have a yellowish tint, so its ideal to have a NON-uvb florecent along side it.

In order from best to worst:
Megaray (reptileuv.com)
T-rex active uv heat (same as megaray, just distributed to petstores by T-rex)
Exo-Terra Solar Glow (not sunglow, a new bulb, seems good)
Powersun (same strength as about the repti-sun 10.0, seems to blow out easy).

Anyway, you can find the distances from the companies.

Bulbs to avoid:

Repti-glo 10.0
ALL COMPACT UVB BULBS
ALL ESU or Zilla bulbs

more info on lighting uvguide.co.uk

hope that helps some, any other questions ask, there are other forums with great caresheets, a simple google search will show them.

[Michelle.C]

I order my roaches from http://aaronpauling.com/

[Jay_Bunny]

Sorry for all the questions but hey, if I find out all the information I need, I might just end up picking up a beardie for myself. I miss having them.

If using a UTH, will it need to be on a thermostat. If so, what temperature should the UTH be at at all times? What temperatures are needed at night?

Is it easy to breed the roaches. I have had success with mealworms because I bred them for my sugar gliders. Are the roaches very hard to breed and can they be used in place of crickets?

Thanks for all the information! I might have to start convincing my fiance to let me get one now. If we shove the dining room table over a bit, we'll have enough room for a 40g tank.