Pacman, who's got em?

[Geezer]

I have a few...

1.) Why is every picture I see of your frogs feeding; they're being fed rodents?
Rodents as a staple for amphibians causes a lot of problems including obesity and fatty liver disease....

2.) Why are you feeding overly sized prey to those frogs, rodent or otherwise?
Yes they can take down meals incredibly large, but it doesn't mean they should...

3.) Why are you feeding a Savannah monitor to that frog?
"If" you claim the Sav was already dead, why is the title "Pixie Owns Savannah."?

Nothing against you, but I'm curious to these questions...

The main diet of these frogs should be varied as much as possible including crickets, super worms, night crawlers, wax and butter worms etc.

A rodent, chick and even a lizard is an excellant source of protein but should be fed sparingly like maybe 1 feeding every 4-6 weeks.

These frogs have the capacity to eat and process very large prey items. you actually have to limit what you feed them to keep them from becoming obese.

Nothing unusual about an african frog eating an african lizard or an african lizard eating an african frog.

Its as normal as feeding a snake a rodent or a chicken, or a lizard a rodent or a chicken.

[Geezer]

Rodents as a staple for amphibians causes a lot of problems including obesity and fatty liver disease....

Rodents should not be fed as a staple, but can be fed every 4-6 weeks if the frog can handle it.

A varied diet is always best.

[CeraDigital]

The main diet of these frogs should be varied as much as possible including crickets, super worms, night crawlers, wax and butter worms etc.

Yes it should be varied as much as you can, but red meat, such as rodents, is too fatty. It should be given very sparingly, if at all. They don't need it. They do much better on invertebrates, especially roaches.

A rodent, chick and even a lizard is an excellant source of protein but should be fed sparingly like maybe 1 feeding every 4-6 weeks.

Those all have different attributes to them. The rodents and chicks are too fatty, and hard to digest by the frog. The chicks, if not free ranged, carry the possibility for salmonella. They could give your frog salmonella poisoning as well as other things. The lizard carries parasites that can and may get spread to the frog, being as they're insectivorious. The most commonly found pet trade lizards, as well as cheapest, are Anoles, Iguana's, and Savannah Monitors....none of these are bred with any regularity in captivity to supply the demand for them, so majority are CH or WC, therefor they carry the possibility to spread those various parasites to the frog. Not worth it, plain and simple...

These frogs have the capacity to eat and process very large prey items. you actually have to limit what you feed them to keep them from becoming obese.

Your preaching to the wrong person on that. Although they have the capacity to eat, digest, and process those very large prey items, it isn't necessary in any way, shape or form. All your pictures show your animals being gorged with a very large rodent for their size. How is that limiting what your feeding them? As well as that, how is it even necessary?

Nothing unusual about an african frog eating an african lizard or an african lizard eating an african frog.

Its as normal as feeding a snake a rodent or a chicken, or a lizard a rodent or a chicken.

Nothing unusual about it for wild animals to feed on them, but here's the difference. Your doing it to captive animals. You have every resource available to you to offer a healthy, risk free, varied diet with more than enough nutrients, proteins, fats, fatty acids, calcium and other variables that they need. Why risk the Savannah monitor injuring the frog, or vice versa? You risk the spread of parasites and other nasties that could jeopardize your collection and others that you sell to; as well as injuring your animals. To you, it may be normal...but you're showing it to other reptile enthusiasts. In my opinion its pretty low...

Rodents should not be fed as a staple, but can be fed every 4-6 weeks if the frog can handle it.

A varied diet is always best.

All your images of them feeding, show them eating rodents. Why not post them eating a much healthier diet? Worms, Grubs, Roaches, Crickets, etc... Not very wise, Ed.

[ragnew]

Great pics as always Ed! The pacmen and pyxies look great as usual. Behemoth and Mammoth are getting treated to their monthly mouse come tomorrow. They're ready for it.

People are so quick to point out the fact that feeder anoles, house geckos and other feeder reptiles are always a risk for parasitic infection, but never really acknowledge the fact that crickets themselves are just as likely to get your animal "parasitized". Worms, coccidia, fungus and bacteria are all widespread when it comes to crickets. I've had worse experiences with them than I have any other feeder in all honesty.

I agree with you Ed, a varied diet is the best way to go about it, and a mouse here and there is a nice addition sometimes. In moderation, I see no harm in it whatsoever.

And this wasn't pointed to anyone in particular, just my opinion on the subject.

BTW Ed, I'd love to have that lighter colored odd-ball of a Cranwelli!

[CeraDigital]

Great pics as always Ed! The pacmen and pyxies look great as usual. Behemoth and Mammoth are getting treated to their monthly mouse come tomorrow. They're ready for it.

People are so quick to point out the fact that feeder anoles, house geckos and other feeder reptiles are always a risk for parasitic infection, but never really acknowledge the fact that crickets themselves are just as likely to get your animal "parasitized". Worms, coccidia, fungus and bacteria are all widespread when it comes to crickets. I've had worse experiences with them than I have any other feeder in all honesty.

I agree with you Ed, a varied diet is the best way to go about it, and a mouse here and there is a nice addition sometimes. In moderation, I see no harm in it whatsoever.

And this wasn't pointed to anyone in particular, just my opinion on the subject.

BTW Ed, I'd love to have that lighter colored odd-ball of a Cranwelli!

First off, I find it funny your first post is defending Ed....

As for the lizards vs feeding the insects themselves. The lizards are WC or CH, feeding on wild invertebrates themselves, which do contract and transmit those parasites.

On the other hand, the crickets and other invertebrates sold in pet stores or from suppliers as feeders are a completely different species than the natives, and are raised, bred and sold by farms and breeders. They're not exposed to the various bacteria, and parasites that their wild counterparts would be, therefor safer for your animal, and they make it less of a risk...THIS is why it is always pointed out about feeder reptiles. Perhaps your not looking far enough into it, rather than saying other people just look at the point of feeding reptiles off...

What about the risk of injury or death to either animal, as well as the title of the image? Seems like something a young kid would do out of enjoyment, don't you think? The animals are both predators, well equipped to do a large amount of damage to each other. Amphibian skin is very thin, and the claws from that Savannah could have done some serious damage to the African Bull Frog, while it was struggling...

As for the mice, and other rodents. Its simply not needed. Thats that. What does the animal have to gain? They get a healthier amount of protein through invertebrates such as Lobster roaches, and the many other species available. To me, it just looks like the "cool" factor.

[Geezer]

As for the mice, and other rodents. Its simply not needed. Thats that. What does the animal have to gain?

They have everything to gain, part of their natural diet is made up of rodents, birds and other frogs to name a few.

Frogs generally are not long lived in captivity, I have alot of older frogs and a Whites that is coming up on 13 years old.

My frogs all eat the ocassional rodent and are thriving.

[CeraDigital]

They have everything to gain, part of their natural diet is made up of rodents, birds and other frogs to name a few.

Frogs generally are not long lived in captivity, I have alot of older frogs and a Whites that is coming up on 13 years old.

My frogs all eat the ocassional rodent and are thriving.

Again, what do they have to gain over eating a staple of invertebrates? Absolutely nothing. Invertebrates are much healtheir than they are, little to no fat, and more nutritious.

[Geezer]

Again, what do they have to gain over eating a staple of invertebrates? Absolutely nothing. Invertebrates are much healtheir than they are, little to no fat, and more nutritious.

My point is......why change their natural diet to suit what you want to feed them?

I'm talking about pyxiecephalus and ceratophrys frogs, not dart or small tree frogs.

[CeraDigital]

My point is......why change their natural diet to suit what you want to feed them?

I'm talking about pyxiecephalus and ceratophrys frogs, not dart or small tree frogs.

As am I. Why change it up to a "natural" diet, when majority of what they consume in the wild is invertebrates? Especially true of the Ceratophyrus genus.

Natural, or safe? Which would most prefer?....

[littleindiangirl]

Well this thread took a left turn....