Colony Collapse - Food Tainted

[Dr Owens]

Heres my two cents, Sean was having an issue with a Purina food, lost 300 rats. I get a new shipment of Purina food and in 24 hours 7 of mine die.

Perhaps there is a connection, perhaps not. You lost 7 rats in 24 hours. He lost his rats over the course of weeks. You fed a Purina product. He fed a product that was formulated at a small mill that happens to have an affiliation of some sort with Purina. There simply has not been enough information provided here to conclude a cause/effect relationship.

It is also easy to say some one is over reacting when your on the other side of the story with no issues, not having to worry about how if all your breeder rats die how will you feed 20+adult ball pythons and an unknown number of hatchling at 2.50 a rat and still replace you 100 + 300 lost rats and time building you colony back.

I'm not "on the other side of the story." I have hundreds of ball pythons, boas, and carpet pythons that I have to worry about feeding day in and day out...but I'll do my best to relate to where you're coming from.

Yes a risk like handing a gun to a child is a risk. Driving drunk is a risk. Swimming in shark infested waters is a risk.

Those examples of "risks," within the context of this conversation, are just silly.

Risks are something that once made aware of, people tend to go out of their way to avoid. Saying I don't want to knowingly feed my rats a possibly contaminated food and letting others that might also benefit from my loss know of the risk is not over reacting its called being aware of my responsibility's as a rat breeder and doing what I can to ensure the well being of animals I have taken in to my care.

You're right about one thing...you have a responsibility to your animals to look out for their welfare. However, as I have already stated, there is limited evidence (at best) to suggest that any of Purina's product lines are contaminated...let alone all of them. In case you forgot, "Purina" didn't make the rodent chow that lord jackel fed his rats.

[Freakie_frog]

In case you forgot, "Purina" didn't make the rodent chow that lord jackel fed his rats.

Purina foods is doing the testing...as my supplier is owned by them.

[Dr Owens]

In case you forgot, "Purina" didn't make the rodent chow that lord jackel fed his rats.

Purina foods is doing the testing...as my supplier is owned by them.

Ok...I think that some of the disconnect here is based on a lack of understanding of how the milling industry works. Nestle Purina has a number of pet product processing plants located throughout the country. These plants produce the majority of their pet foods (of all types). However, they also own, or have affiliations with, dozens of smaller mills throughout the country that produce products of all types...some for Purina, and some for other companies, or even (as in this case) individuals. To say that "Purina" produced the rat food in question, while it may be technically accurate, is not the same thing as saying that it was produced by the mill that manufactures LabDiet, and Mazuri rodent chow.

So...unless you can tell me that lord jackel had his rodent food produced in the PMI Nutrition International plant located in Richmond, Indiana (where both Mazuri rodent chow, and LabDiet are manufactured), then you can not draw a connection between what he fed his animals, and the products produced in that plant.

[Freakie_frog]

+
So...unless you can tell me that lord jackel had his rodent food produced in the PMI Nutrition International plant located in Richmond, Indiana (where both Mazuri rodent chow, and LabDiet are manufactured), then you can not draw a connection between what he fed his animals, and the products produced in that plant.

I agree 100%

But we also don't know that the tainted Koran soybean meal that was use purchased by Purina, and use at Purina plat to produce Seans rat food wasn't also purchased and shipped to the Purina plant that Muzari rat food plant. Sounds right to me company buys cheapest meal from one supplier and that who they use when they buy soybean meal. I can almost guarantee... in fact I'd bet my pay check for a year says that soybean meal was not purchased and used for the sole reason of making Seans rat food and only distributed to him.

But lets say that they did and Sean is the only one out of all the products that meal was used in out of all the mills Purina owns that Sean got the only bad Soybean meal. It is still one more thing in a long line of issues of Purina having contaminate products in there food and costing animal lives.

Also if Purina wants to put their name on it regardless of who produced it they are responsible. GM makes loads of different brands of cars and truck.. If tomorrow Cadillac SUV's started blowing up because of faulty fuel pumps and then later Buicks doing the same thing. Can GM say oh well the two weren't related cause this car was made in this Cadillac plant by this maker and this SUV was made in this plant by Buick?

In the end people just need to watch and if you start seeing animals dies see what kind of food you are feeding not asking for a witch hunt just a weather eye.

[littleindiangirl]

Still don't understand how you see no risk. There is a chance, though limited. He has much invested into his colony, he doesn't want to take a risk, and informs others to watch their own rats for sickness or death.

These two circumstances may be totally unrelated, regardless, he just bought mazuri, and some of his rats are dead.

You may not be able to affirmatively draw the connections based on what little data he has presented, but you cannot just dismiss it either. That's what I personally have been saying this whole time.

We aren't inciting riots, we didnt even say Purina's whole chow line is condemned and tainted, but I think the closeness of the two incidents, and the parent company for both being Purina, there is enough to go on to limit or supervise the rats closer than normal.

It's all under investigation to find out what the cause is, but it sounds like your trying to dissuade people from having concerns. It's OK to have concerns about your feed. It's OK to tell others to monitor their own animals. All this thread has ever been was a big concerning note to others.

[Patrick Long]

wow....looks like some people have a problem here, I WILL STAY OUT OF IT.

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss Lord Jackel, and to all those who have suffered from the same experience, my condolences.

[Freakie_frog]

So...unless you can tell me that lord jackel had his rodent food produced in the PMI Nutrition International plant located in Richmond, Indiana (where both Mazuri rodent chow, and LabDiet are manufactured), then you can not draw a connection between what he fed his animals, and the products produced in that plant.

PSSSSSTTT I'll give you three guesses where Sean lives

Here I'll help

unless he has moved
it starts with an "I" and ends in "ndiana"

[Dr Owens]

Still don't understand how you see no risk.

but it sounds like your trying to dissuade people from having concerns.

That's not the case. No where did I say that there was no risk. What I said was that it seemed that people were jumping to conclusions about Purina's product lines. It's one thing to exercise caution, and it's quite another to make broad ASSumptions based on extremely limited information. That is my point.


btw, Sean, I'm really sorry that this happened to your animals. The whole thing sucks. I know that you don't know me, and I don't know where you're located, but if you're anywhere around my part of the country, I'd be more than happy to share some adult females with you in order to help you rebuild.

[Brimstone111888]

Wow, someone is a Purina representative.

[Dr Owens]

PSSSSSTTT I'll give you three guesses where Sean lives

Here I'll help

unless he has moved
it starts with an "I" and ends in "ndiana"

That's interesting. Perhaps he'll also tell us where he had the food formulated. Depending on what he says, people might then have more reliable information upon which to draw conclusions, and then take any necessary precautions as that information indicates.