A little heating advice...?

[JuliaGoolia]

Hey everyone.. Happy New Years Eve!

I've read a lot about heat source pros and cons, but I need a little advice.

We live in Ohio, so right now, the weather is cold and DRY. Keeping our young BP's tank the way it needs to be is a challenge, but one we are willing to take on. (If anyone has followed my other posts, this girls has given us a lot of challenges in the past several weeks. I have learned a LOT!)

I am having a hard time finding a happy medium with my heat and humidity. If I get one, the other falters.. period. And I just can't seem to get them both to where i need it.

We have a 20L tank, clamped screen lid. (I know, I know... but we just LOVE to look at her!) We have 3 sides insulated w/that reflexive insulation. The screen is also covered with the reflexive, aside from the holes we have cut out for her lamps, and about 1 1/2-2" on both sides for a bit more air flow.

We've tried plexiglass on top - and it just wasn't snug enough.

We've tried just one lamp, white bulb, white during the day, red at night, ... but nothing kept it warm enough until we put the two red lamps up there - One on the warm side (60watt) w/the UTH, and one on the cool side(40 watt).

I want to do away with the lamps all together, but the UTH just isn't doing it. I don't know if I need a BIGGER one, or just put one on the cool side?? We currently have a small zoomed UTH. What are your suggestions on UTH sizes and placement in a 20L?

What about these ceramic radiant heaters I keep hearing about? Are those a better option than the lamps? Do they suck up the humidity as bad as the lamps do?

And lastly, (i am so full of questions - it's hard to get them all typed out here!) About the thermostats - rheostats.. Do I need one for each heating element I have? I've seen them with a surge protector like attachment on them to plug in multiple items - but wouldn't that make each one have the same temp? I guess I'm just unclear on how to use them if we have more than one heating element in the tank.

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!

-J

FYI- here are the links to my other posts.
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=57884

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=57817

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=57176

[MelissaFlipski]

Wow. A lot of questions. We had some of the same struggles with our 20L, too. Here is how we solved it:

Cool side has a UTH under it - with cardboard and shredded Aspen to make sure the glass didn't get too hot - this ensures the cool side doesn't get too cool. The UTH is on a dimmer (rheostats are more expensive, a dimmer is cheaper if anyone over there knows how to do basic electrical work). Cool side also has vapor barrier paper (for under wood flooring, but you can use something else) with one hole in it for ventilation.

Warm side has a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) of 100 Watts in a Fluke's wide brimmed lamp, sitting on to of the tank (bulb is far enough up not to heat the screen too hot). It is plugged into a thermostat that turns the CHE up/down/off/on to keep the warm side temp between 89 and 91 degrees F. The lamp sits in the large whole on the vapor barrier on the warm side.

We have digital thermomaters and hydrogometers on both sides.

The tank is insulated on the back and right sides with 1" foam.

The tank sits next to an elephant humidifier (holds only 1 gallon). We have it aiming out at the room, but it keeps the tank between 48% and 57% humid. Now that our BP is close to shed, I aimed the humidifier toward the tank to bump the humidity 5% to 10%.

Be careful with misting too much - wet does not equal humid. And I think that is how we gave our BP an URI. She is done with her antibiotics now.

Good luck!

[starmom]

Hi there and Happy New Year!!
I live in the high desert of Central Oregon where it is very cold and very very dry. Temps and humidity were a huge concern and so I knew that prior to getting my herps I needed to really investigate my options and have everything up and running and really stable. And, like you, I wanted to be able to 'see' my snakes <it's so crazy since they're nocturnal...!>
I went to Rich at Reptile Basics and got three of these cages: http://www.reptilebasics.com/2x3-Cag...h-p-16286.html. I have the flexwatt controlled by a Helix t-stat and I have digital temps and hygrometer in each cage, as well as a laser temp gun. I have shallow containers of sphagnum moss on the warm side of each cage to bump humidity, as well as their water dishes. I also closed all the vent holes in the back of each cage to further bump humidity and ambient temps. Given that I am in graduate school and also still have kids at home, as well as grandkids, as well as building our 'off the grid straw bale castle' on our little ranch in eastern Oregon, the nighttime temps in our home are kept quite low and definitely too low for the herps. To compensate for this, I grabbed some rigid insulation and enclosed all three sides of the cages and the top (we have them stacked) and this has done the trick! Basking temps are 92F, cool temps are 82-85F, ambient temps are 79-82F and humidity is between 59-64%. Wooohoooo!!!!!!!!
Of course, this hobby is addicting. I am waiting for this little rack from Rich to come: http://www.reptilebasics.com/Iris-Sw...t-p-16197.html
I have another Helix for it and am suspecting that maintaining temps and humidity will not be such a challenge. Also, Rich has these nifty dividers for the tubs so that young balls will still feel cozy and I will effectively double the space for potential balls. Good thing too, because I have doubled the number of balls I am getting!!
Hope this info helps you. I know that you have a different set-up, but I also heard you saying that you wanted to change major aspects of it. Good luck!

[JuliaGoolia]

As far as substrate and under the tank, .. The bottom OUTSIDE of the tank, we covered in foil. We read that it helps to bring a bit of the heat from the UTH over to the cooler side. Inside the tank, we have foil, newspaper and then the repti-felt stuff.
Again, we read that it help disperse the heat, and avoids having a definate "hot spot" where the UTH Is.

We chose the felt because it was easier for my 14 y/o to clean. (Although, as I've stated before, our little BP is his in name only the more we are involved. The hubby and I have aquired a great affection for her ...) He's colorblind, and digging through the mulch was a little harder than he thought it would Now, I have been thinking about switching back to that, Cyprus, or Aspen, just because of the humidity factor.. Do shavings and/or mulch hold it better than the felt would??

What is an elephant humidifier?? We've been playing around with the idea of buying one for the room that she's in... and i've also seen a post or two about making your own.. Still haven't really decided what the best plan of action is. We do mist in there every once in a while. Admitadly, i have a bit more this week, as she was going through a shed. (The 2nd since we've had her..) It went well, aside from her head - we're still working on that.. and keeping an eye on her eyes...

Our girl is still being treated with antibiotics as well. The vet said it was an inner ear infection because of her goofy behavior.. but I'm not so sure. She does seem to be getting better and stronger.. *sigh* but I digress. I tend to wander a bit when I write... sorry!

We do have a digi thermometer w/probe for both sides of the tank.. so we are keeping a constant eye on her temps - but they just fluctuate so much now.. I think the next thing we need to get is a dimmer/thermostat or something to control the heat. Does anyone have a preference between the strict on/off ones and other kinds??

Thank you so much for your help!!

[MelissaFlipski]

Any cool mist humidifier will do. But we happen to have an elephant and a pig for our two bedrooms. Just to show you what I mean:
http://www.google.com/products?clien...&oe=utf-8&um=1
We like it b/c there are no filters to be bought. But I'm sure you can find them cheaper somewhere. We got ours at Bed & Bath.

The foil sounds like a good idea - and all your layers on the bottom. Our BP is our 6 yr old son's and we fell in love with her, too! She is on her 2nd course of antibiotics right now! Yikes!

Anyway, about the dimmers, etc. My husband cut in a dimmer for the UTH b/c he knows some electrical. They are about $6 bucks for materials vs. $25 for a rheostat (which is the same thing, but no electrical work or knowledge required; and it's UL listed). The thermostats take the temperature and dim the heat source up and down to maintain a steady temp. We love ours for the CHE! But it was $19.99 on sale 1/2 price and we can't find any more of them right now. We want one for our other snake's tank at some point, too.

Did we talk about insulating the outside of the tank? Two sides of ours has 1" insulating foam around it and that helped a lot, too. Three sides of the tank would make it even better.

Sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck!

[JuliaGoolia]

I looked at the page for cages.. I do, in fact have my eye on the small cage.. but it may have to wait. (I really like the fact that the belly heat is built into the cage!! and all inclusive pricing? Can't beat that!! )

The only thing that I have for humidity, just because I don't know what else to do at this point, is two little "dipping sauce" bowls that I keep filled with warm water and a paper towl to disperse the humidity. (As well as her drinking water...) I try to switch out the paper towels daily so I don't get bacteria build up in there. Does the moss work well? I had read both ways - that some live plants work great, such as the moss you use, or a pothos plant - but then I read that live plants are NOT such a good adea because of the constant dampness that would breed bacteria.

Because of the health issues we've had/been having with her thus far, I don't want to add anything else that could potentially harm her.

Thanks again, for your response... I welcome it all.. We really want to have a good environment for her and get her healthy!

[JuliaGoolia]

Oh.. and FYI - here is a picture that was taken yesterday morning. As I mentioned, she has been going through a shed, and I woke up to find her soaking in her water bowl. She has never done it before, and even when we've tried to get her to GO in there, she didn't seem to receptive - so it was kind of nice. It wasn't the best shed, but it was a LOT better than the first one she had since she's been with us. Now we just need to work on her head..

So this, in a nutshell, is what our tank currently looks like.. I'm not real sure how to re-size images in here with these kind of tags, so I'm SO sorry if it comes out huge..

[starmom]

Hi there!~
I would get rid of the tank thermometer (on the glass in the back) since they are notoriously unreliable! Also, the reptile carpet on the cage floor is a breeder of bacteria; you just can't get them clean. My son is also colorblind and we got indented kraft paper from U-line (http://www.uline.com/Browse_Listing_...ed+Kraft+Paper)
We got the precut sheets and it is easy and there is no digging and when the paper is soiled it is simply changed completely out. There is no 'missing' of any soiled bedding.
Maybe a humid hide would be good. Get some sphagnum moss (sold at pet stores and on-line; dried out and in bags). Dampen the moss and put it in the warm hide. This way your herp could get all the humidity needed for a complete shed. What do you think?
I guess I would vote heavily to get a herp cage or tub. There are so many benefits for the snake and (my opinion) much less hassle for the owner! Again, just my 2 cents.
Good luck!

[starmom]

Sorry, I forgot to ask why you have the paper towel things on top of the hides? If you put them on the hot side of the tank they would generate much more humidity!!!

[JuliaGoolia]

We don't *really* use the sticky thermometer on the back. It's just kind of... there. We use the digi with the probe to moniter both sides of the tank.

I'm kind of pushing for a clear tub... it just kind of stinks with all the work/money we've put into the glass one so far.. I know it will be less of a headache for us if we were to get a plastic tub, and less stressful for her. I just have to convince the masses..: I keep thinking... Easier on us? Better for her? Let's do it!!