Getting rid of normal offspring

[rabernet]

Yep. I just re-read your quote and for some reason I picked up a different meaning the first time. Color me discombobulated.

I love that word.

[SnakieMom]

I feed live because there is no waste if an animal doesn't eat. Plus with a lot of snakes you don't have time to heat and reheat F/T, the natural movement of the prey stimulates the feeding response, For tricky feeders that need to be left alone in the dark to eat that can be hard to stimulate an feeding responce with P/K or F/T.

Thank you for such detailed answers, I very much appreciate it!

[bearhart]

I just wondered if it's hard to move all the normals generated when you are trying to play the het odds game.

I am thinking about breeding in about 2 years (on a very small scale), and I suppose it would be all right to have a few normals around, but how do you place the others?

I've wondered about this myself. Probably depends on where you live. The exotics stores here buy all sorts of animals from area breeders regularly.

The store I frequent moves alot of normal BP's and I know for a fact they buy quite a few of them from area breeders. They sell normals for $69. They also have favored breeders that regularly provide them with very nice normals and they put them in a separate enclosure, label them "Extra Fancy", and charge $99 for them.

In general, the vast majority of BP's sold in pet stores are normals - and its ALOT of snakes. If you just want to move non-morphs at a reduced rate (maybe $25 apiece?) I would think there is nearly an insatiable market out there.

But, if you want to make sure each and every one finds a good home, that's another "ball" game entirely.

[LadyOhh]

In my area, which is very close to a MAJOR metropolis, most pet stores get them from imports.

I have been having a hard time finding pet stores in my area in particular, since one of the pet stores near me imported a 1000 CH babies this year.

It is either have the space to keep them, or don't breed them.

You have to keep that in mind, and be prepared for the babies ahead of time.

[bearhart]

When done responsibly, and with appropriately sized prey, feeding live has a very low risk of causing injury to your snake. I've fed over 3000 live prey off and never had one injure any of my 17 snakes. Even if I had just one injury (which I haven't) the risk would be 1 in 3000 or .000333% chance of injury. Less than a percent, much less than a 1% chance for injury.

Actually, they are too busy trying to breath to do much more.

Agreed. I think the biggest thing here is to make sure to feed prey that are small enough for the snake to overwhelm. It is safer for the snake, and it is more humane because the prey tend to die much more quickly.

To such an appropriately sized prey item, the snake is practically impervious. The exception, I think, are the eyes. However, the way snakes constrict make it very unlikely that a rodent will be in a position to take a good shot at an eye. My experience thus far has been that a cluttered "kill zone" should be avoided because it encourages the snake to take less than ideal strikes. A poor initial strike increases the chance that the rodent will be able to effectively fight back.

[bearhart]

In my area, which is very close to a MAJOR metropolis, most pet stores get them from imports.

I have been having a hard time finding pet stores in my area in particular, since one of the pet stores near me imported a 1000 CH babies this year.

It is either have the space to keep them, or don't breed them.

You have to keep that in mind, and be prepared for the babies ahead of time.

I live in a 1mil pop city. We have our petco's and whatnot. I'm referring to the smaller "botique" type exotics stores, of which we have several. Plus, if you count all of the exotic pet stores within 4 hours drive of here, there are probably several dozen.

Ultimately, nobody would be in the breeding business if they couldn't sell the offspring, normal or otherwise. I think the message here should be more like "You shouldn't put yourself in a position where you are rushed to get rid of the offspring".

[LadyOhh]

I live in a 1mil pop city. We have our petco's and whatnot. I'm referring to the smaller "botique" type exotics stores, of which we have several. Plus, if you count all of the exotic pet stores within 4 hours drive of here, there are probably several dozen.

Ultimately, nobody would be in the breeding business if they couldn't sell the offspring, normal or otherwise. I think the message here should be more like "You shouldn't put yourself in a position where you are rushed to get rid of the offspring".

I was referring to a smaller Mom and Pop reptile store as the one who imported the 1000.

And, as for the rushing, that is a personal issue, mostly due to funding and patience.

I still believe that if you cannot afford to keep them, don't breed them.

[jhall1468]

On the CO2 discussion, I was under the impression that CO2 is heavier than oxygen, you keep the CO2 on a low stream, and the oxygen is replaced by CO2 slowly, during this, the animal will get drowsy and fall asleep. When the animal is asleep, you turn the CO2 on high, and end it quickly while they are asleep.

The results depend entirely on the concentration. At a concentration of 8%, CO2 acts as a pain killer. As the concentration gets higher, the anesthetic effect acts more swiftly. However, high concentrations can cause distress.

However, tests on rats showed that a gradually increasing concentration of 33% caused no notable stress, and cardiac arrest within 5 minutes.

It takes some practice to use a CO2 chamber properly. Namely because CO2 meters are really REALLY expensive, so "doing it by hand" is often the method of choice. However, if you are killing them in 30 seconds, the concentration is WAY too high.

In my experience, if they are going to sleep within 2-3 minutes you are doing it right.

And I can't see CO2 staying in high concentrations in a feeder for so long that it is harmful to the snake.

It's impossible, so that's a fairly reasonable stance .

[broadude]

The results depend entirely on the concentration. At a concentration of 8%, CO2 acts as a pain killer. As the concentration gets higher, the anesthetic effect acts more swiftly. However, high concentrations can cause distress.

However, tests on rats showed that a gradually increasing concentration of 33% caused no notable stress, and cardiac arrest within 5 minutes.

It takes some practice to use a CO2 chamber properly. Namely because CO2 meters are really REALLY expensive, so "doing it by hand" is often the method of choice. However, if you are killing them in 30 seconds, the concentration is WAY too high.

In my experience, if they are going to sleep within 2-3 minutes you are doing it right.



It's impossible, so that's a fairly reasonable stance .

I haven't posted in a while, but this topic caught my attention.

I use Dry Ice to euthanize my prey animals that are too big to feed live. Only a few pieces in a bowl of water that is placed in a larger bucket and a top put over it (or not) do the job safely and humanely without the worry of measuring gases

Also it's not expensive, about 1.50 a pound or so. The con is that the ice evaporates within 24 hours so for best results, one should have all their animals that they plan to feed done at the same time.

The rats that I have euthanized this way go to sleep immediately after being put in the bucket. There is no kicking, clawing, just a simply laying down and going to sleep. There is also on my part, no worrying about combustible gases.

[Ginevive]

All you have to do, is look around. Many pet stores will buy your normals. I know of one guy, who had already ordered in some normals from another breeder, and was upset that I had not asked him sooner! Get out there before you even breed; just shoot around for places that'd be interested, and keep in contact and build a rapport. You could even think of trading your babies for feeders, bedding, or the like.
I only deal with really good pet stores though, and through Craigslist of all places, I found my local shop that will be getting first dibs on anything that I breed and don't hold back, and vice versa. We plan on doing some exciting trades (they're running het pieds soon.. you know where I am going on that one!) and I plan on spiders this year, and they are excited about that. Awesome stuff all around!