Getting rid of normal offspring

[Lokua]

What? I really do not know how to reply to that statement..
Am I really the only one out here that dislikes "free to good home" ads and sees them as cop-outs for people to dump animals off that probably have huge amounts of things wrong with them?
I see nothing wrong, after thinking about it, with gifting a trusted person with a snake. It was a bit harsh, yes, for me to say I was 100% against giving away animals, thus. But no.. I will never agree to endorsing FTGH ads. Your comment on dogs though.. I don't know what that is supposed to mean!

sorry, perhaps that came out wrong. i in no way ment to disrespect dog owners, simply putting that keeping a mammal is easyer than keeping a reptile.

that if you just provide food and water for a dog they will live, its not required for a dog to have a dog house, or to be brought in from the cold or have there tempature controlled and regulated. i was simply stating that the knowledge you have about keeping snakes would allow you to make an informed descision about keeping (or even selling) a snake to someone by asking them questions about how they intend to care for the creature. that in of itself could be used to establish if someone is worthy and creditable for keeping such a pet.

I don't mean to hijack this, but kinda going with the original
question on what to do with the babies...
How much would you expect to put into their upkeep?
For one, can anyone reccomend a good hatchling rack?
Who prefers belly heat over back heat?
How long can a hatchling stay in the hatchling rack?
(yes, i know they aren't all the same, just, in general)

What could one expect to pay in upkeep on the hatchlings?
-food
-substrate

I know there's a big controversy on feeding f/t vs. live,
but, what are the pros and cons of feeding either
to a hatchling, AND, if you decide to feed live,
what kind of costs would you expect from raising your own feeders?

Sorry to bombard you all with this, but my hubby (who has shown NO interest in my balls) all the sudden is talking about
us breeding. So, I want to be as prepared as I can before I actually put a male and female together.

Thanks in advance!

cant answer all of those (alot are more experienced than me and will let them chime in) but will give info on a few.

belly heat is better for digestion and lets the snake better ajust there tempature to their liking but back heat is important too for the air tempature, eles the belly will be warm but the air above the snake will simply be room tempature which is not good (again not as knowledged as others so they may please give their imput during the daylight hours)

as for F/t vs live, i really cannot think of any pros to live except it may stimulate a better feeding response if you have a very finicky eater and if that is the case one should really work on getting them onto f/t (that and i guess those whom only have a snake to watch them eat a living creature)

cons of live however are that its alive and has a pretty good survival instinct, a mouse(or rat or whatever you are feeding) does not wish to be eaten, thus they will fight and can potentialy harm your snake. they have sharp claws and sharp teeth and dont just roll over to be devoured.

as for raising them and the cost, it would probably be cheaper to raise them yourself than buy frozen. all one would really need is a cage, food and water. and the responsibility to clean up their messes but would still suggest pre-killing the feeder before offering it to the snake. there really is no...proper way to kill a mouse, my personal suggestion is electrocution or to shove a large needle or dart (like that for dart boards) into the back of the neck, it will sever the spine and IMO the most painless way for the mouse. i suggest steralizing the dart beforehand with alcohol or fire (let it cool before using) just hold them and shove it in into the spine, you could puncture the head but pushing through the skull is much harder but if you do that do temple to temple or through the ear

sry, hope none of that sounds gorey. its just the most painless way in my opinion, alot of people suggest chrushing their heads with a hammer or slamming them onto something. which is fine but you end up with a mess and a chrushed feeder, my way is more eye-pleasing and with chrushing you sometimes mess up and have to do it again which is not a very appealing thing to do.

wholesalers use co2 to kill theres, basicly they suffocate them. works fine even though i dont personaly like that method as unsure what this can do to the snake once they eat food that has been pumped full of co2.

DO NOT use posion of any kind, this will kill your snake.

edit: one last thing, when working with sharp objects be EXTREMLY careful not to slip and stab yourself. i reccomend using latex gloves when performing this. it requires a bit of force to get kill a mouse VIA dart to the neck so dont be gentle and dont poke yourself, last thing i want is someone to have a disease or infection.

i do suggest being humane to all animals. but if all this is too squimish for you then you can just place the creature into a tupperware container and freeze them. its cruel in my opinion but gets the job done

[Lokua]

sry. one last thing (and cant locate edit buttion) heres a quickie on ft VS live http://rodentpro.com/feeder_animals.asp

^ there also good for buying, id reccomend rodent pro.

raising feeder mice has its benifits, and would reccomend that course but you must kill them yourself, i strongly reccomend against live prey

[rabernet]

as for F/t vs live, i really cannot think of any pros to live except it may stimulate a better feeding response if you have a very finicky eater and if that is the case one should really work on getting them onto f/t (that and i guess those whom only have a snake to watch them eat a living creature)

You will find that here on bp.net, we advocate that it's up to each individual keeper to decide which method is most convenient for them. We have many members, including myself, who have fed off thousands of live prey without any injury to our animals. When done responsibly, and with appropriately sized prey, feeding live has a very low risk of causing injury to your snake. I've fed over 3000 live prey off and never had one injure any of my 17 snakes. Even if I had just one injury (which I haven't) the risk would be 1 in 3000 or .000333% chance of injury. Less than a percent, much less than a 1% chance for injury.

cons of live however are that its alive and has a pretty good survival instinct, a mouse(or rat or whatever you are feeding) does not wish to be eaten, thus they will fight and can potentialy harm your snake. they have sharp claws and sharp teeth and dont just roll over to be devoured.

Actually, they are too busy trying to breath to do much more.

there really is no...proper way to kill a mouse

Yes there is, CO2 chamber. We have stickies in the Feeder forum for making your own.

my personal suggestion is electrocution or to shove a large needle or dart (like that for dart boards) into the back of the neck, it will sever the spine and IMO the most painless way for the mouse. i suggest steralizing the dart beforehand with alcohol or fire (let it cool before using) just hold them and shove it in into the spine, you could puncture the head but pushing through the skull is much harder but if you do that do temple to temple or through the ear

How do you know that your method is painless to the mice? Have you had a dart or needle shoved into your head?

sry, hope none of that sounds gorey. its just the most painless way in my opinion, alot of people suggest chrushing their heads with a hammer or slamming them onto something. which is fine but you end up with a mess and a chrushed feeder, my way is more eye-pleasing and with chrushing you sometimes mess up and have to do it again which is not a very appealing thing to do.

Again, the only humane way to euthanize feeders is with a CO2 chamber.

wholesalers use co2 to kill theres, basicly they suffocate them. works fine even though i dont personaly like that method as unsure what this can do to the snake once they eat food that has been pumped full of co2.

CO2 is what you exhale every time you breath, it's not going to harm your snake.

i do suggest being humane to all animals. but if all this is too squimish for you then you can just place the creature into a tupperware container and freeze them. its cruel in my opinion but gets the job done

Then please start using a CO2 chamber rather than the way you currently are pre-killing your prey.

[SnakieMom]

Rabernet, I 100% agree.

And, Lokua, thanks for your input.

Does anyone else have any info on this subject?
(The questions I asked before, not on whether or not to feed
live or f/t and how to 'pre-kill'.)

I'm not about to try to bring up that topic again!

[Lokua]

np. wish i could be more helpful on that subject. my "opinion" on live VS f/t is feed pre-killed

[xdeus]

CO2 is what you exhale every time you breath, it's not going to harm your snake.

Well, that's not exactly true. CO2 in large concentrations will mix readily with the water of the mucous membranes and produce carbonic acid which can be quite painful. That's why it's advisable to start off with low concentrations when using a CO2 chamber and increasing the concentration after the the rats/mice are unconscious.

[rabernet]

Well, that's not exactly true. CO2 in large concentrations will mix readily with the water of the mucous membranes and produce carbonic acid which can be quite painful. That's why it's advisable to start off with low concentrations when using a CO2 chamber and increasing the concentration after the the rats/mice are unconscious.

Good to know for the humane killing of feeders. However, the point was that the CO2 breathed in by the prey is not a toxin that is going to harm your snake. Would you agree?

[littleindiangirl]

On the CO2 discussion, I was under the impression that CO2 is heavier than oxygen, you keep the CO2 on a low stream, and the oxygen is replaced by CO2 slowly, during this, the animal will get drowsy and fall asleep. When the animal is asleep, you turn the CO2 on high, and end it quickly while they are asleep.

And I can't see CO2 staying in high concentrations in a feeder for so long that it is harmful to the snake.

[Freakie_frog]

I don't mean to hijack this, but kinda going with the original
question on what to do with the babies...

I sale my to a locale reptile store here in my area

How much would you expect to put into their upkeep?

Money wise is the cost of water,power,substrate,any medical,records, and feeder care

For one, can anyone reccomend a good hatchling rack?

Build your own. You can make it to the size and type you need.

Who prefers belly heat over back heat?

I like belly heat for all my snakes.

How long can a hatchling stay in the hatchling rack?
(yes, i know they aren't all the same, just, in general)

I make my hatchling racks to hold 15qt sterlite tubs. They stay in that till they are 500-600 grams then get moved to a 32qt rack

What could one expect to pay in upkeep on the hatchlings?
-food
-substrate

Food: I raise my own so for food and water and bedding 50.00 a month
Substrate: Newspaper so 20.00 a month
Cleaning: 19.95 for a gal of clorahexadine

I know there's a big controversy on feeding f/t vs. live,
but, what are the pros and cons of feeding either
to a hatchling, AND, if you decide to feed live,
what kind of costs would you expect from raising your own feeders?

I feed live because there is no waste if an animal doesn't eat. Plus with a lot of snakes you don't have time to heat and reheat F/T, the natural movement of the prey stimulates the feeding response, For tricky feeders that need to be left alone in the dark to eat that can be hard to stimulate an feeding responce with P/K or F/T.

[xdeus]

Good to know for the humane killing of feeders. However, the point was that the CO2 breathed in by the prey is not a toxin that is going to harm your snake. Would you agree?

Yep. I just re-read your quote and for some reason I picked up a different meaning the first time. Color me discombobulated.