Is it ok if my bp eats a live mouse, live?

[Gooseman]

On this topic, people have different opinions on feeding f/t, pre-killed or live.. so maybe we should just leave it at that?

If no one discussed WHY their opinions differ... what would be the point of a forum at all?

Just curious...

[juddb]

Just a few excerpts from articles you might be interested in Melissa.

The pressures of 6.1–30.9 kPa (46–232 mm Hg) exerted on small mammal prey by constricting snakes range from about half to over twice a mouse's systolic blood pressure, and are probably 10 times larger than the venous pressure. These high pressures probably kill mammalian prey by inducing immediate circulatory and cardiac arrest, rather than by suffocation alone.

(from a research paper authored by Brad Moon, Department of Biology, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI)

In this study, we measured constriction pressure of 5-175 kPa in 12 species and 30 individuals, which varied in diameter from 0.85-12.5 cm. Constriction pressure varied significantly with snake diameter and number of loops in the coil. The measured pressures are high enough to kill many kinds of prey animals by circulatory arrest or spinal fracture, both of which are faster than killing prey by suffocation alone, and therefore are probably safer for the constrictor.

(from Biology of the Boas and Pythons, Pp. 207-212, Brad R. Moon & Rita S. Mehta authors)

Suffocation is one common explanation for how coiling kills. But it takes about four minutes for a rat to die of asphyxiation, whereas a snake can constrict a rodent to death in just one.

(from Natural Curves - How Snakes Use Bending Skills, authored by Carl Zimmer)

For 30 prey capture sequences, the mean time required for striking at and encircling prey was 1.6 seconds.

(From Kinematics and Time Relations of Prey Capture by Gopher Snakes, a study undertaken by O. E. Greenwald where they used high speed film to capture constriction sequences)

Now that's Mother Nature at her best!

Wow great post thanks for that.

[BallPythonsRule]

If no one discussed WHY their opinions differ... what would be the point of a forum at all?

Just curious...

This thread was just me asking if it's ok if my snake swallows a mouse live..
it now turned in to whats humane and what not... so dunno.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

That I would consider kinda' harsh...

On this topic, people have different opinions on feeding f/t, pre-killed or live.. so maybe we should just leave it at that?

so Adam is harsh .

How about you, what are you???

To tell you guys the truth, to me, I don't care about the mouse's feelings when it's getting eaten, it's a mouse, it was going to die any way. I started hitting a mouse with a book to "stunn" it so it wouldn't bite my snake. Too bad for the mouse is all I can say.

I would say cruel and inhumane!

[BallPythonsRule]

so Adam is harsh .

How about you, what are you???

I would say cruel and inhumane!

I then corrected that and said I hit the mouse on the book...
If you have a problem with that... good for you.
I didn't even say Adam is harsh.. I said the method he stated on whacking the mouse is harsh.. I def. don't do that..

If you have a specific methodology for "whacking" your rodents to death that works 100% of the time, good for you ... unfortunately, there are many many people that swing the animals around by the tail and knock them into a wall, place them in pillow cases and slam them on the ground, hit them with a book, or even throw them against something that aren't 100% successful 100% of the time ... those are the people and methods that have caused the AVMA to deem "whacking" inhumane.

Hope this helps.

-adam

[MeMe]

This thread was just me asking if it's ok if my snake swallows a mouse live..
it now turned in to whats humane and what not... so dunno.

No....this is grown ups having a discussion.

pull up a chair...your welcome to join.

[Gooseman]

To tell you guys the truth, to me, I don't care about the mouse's feelings when it's getting eaten, it's a mouse, it was going to die any way.

That sounds pretty cruel to me... yes, it's going to die. But for what reason? To sustain your snake. That alone should give you enough respect for the feeder that you should care for it to have as painless a death as possible. Not to mention just being a humane person in general....


And yes, this is a discussion... This is how discussions work. Your answer was given within the first few posts, and the rest of the thread then continued on a similar topic. What's so wrong about that?

[Gooseman]

Just because it's "remarkably easy" for YOU to do, doesn't mean that it is "remarkably easy" for EVERYONE .... The point that that AVMA has made about "whacking" is that it is inhumane because if it is done INCORRECTLY, the rodent could be left still alive but in SEVERE pain. All you'd have to do is read around this very message board a little and you'll find threads posted by people that have "whacked" a rodent only to be shocked a few minutes later when it "wakes up" and is limping around the snakes enclosure.

If you have a specific methodology for "whacking" your rodents to death that works 100% of the time, good for you ... unfortunately, there are many many people that swing the animals around by the tail and knock them into a wall, place them in pillow cases and slam them on the ground, hit them with a book, or even throw them against something that aren't 100% successful 100% of the time ... those are the people and methods that have caused the AVMA to deem "whacking" inhumane.

Hope this helps.

-adam

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Adam_Wysocki again.

[BallPythonsRule]

That sounds pretty cruel to me... yes, it's going to die. But for what reason? To sustain your snake. That alone should give you enough respect for the feeder that you should care for it to have as painless a death as possible. Not to mention just being a humane person in general....

It seems like you're getting very "PETA" on me...
I have respect for feeders because they feed my snake.. other than that I have zero.. I hate rodents and that's just me..

[MeMe]

It seems like you're getting very "PETA" on me...

That is a childish statement...I invited you personally to join in a "grown up" conversation.

I have respect for feeders because they feed my snake

No...you don't.

and this is why...

I hate rodents and that's just me..