Is the high price market dying?

[PigsnPythons]

And I'm sorry to say, but I resent this comment. I don't want small hobbyists like myself to get in a financial black hole because their breeding and selling prevents them from making any money, even just to support their snakes(feeding bills, racks, electricity). I don't want Ball Pythons to become like Bearded Dragons or other money-pit reptiles. I don't mind spending what money I can afford on a nice snake(morphs or hets), and have it pay for itself through breeding and selling the offspring.

Even if it does become a money pit, I'll just keep them all and not sell a single one! I want prices to stay where they are, especially from a customer's point of view, because I want a return on my investment. I just want my snakes to support themselves and possibly give me a little extra money here and there to buy that special snake that catches my eye.

I have to say that I completely agree. I'm several years from breeding...and by no means am I expecting to make a profit...but it would be nice to get back some of my investment so that I can buy the next cool morph.

[Blue Apple Herps]

I dont see how your explanation of your statement really explains how you can want one but dont see how it leads to the other... If people keep dropping prices to the extreme that happened this yr the market is going to be flooded... Soon theres going to be more breeders than buyers and theres your market crash... some morphs lost 500$ in market price in a single season... That drop is going to impact every combo moprh made with this base morph. I dont think prices should stay high forever but there needs to be a reationship between price of a base morph and what it makes. Too many small breeders arnt willing to hold onto their stock for long and just drop the price to get em out of the door.

Why cant there be lamborgini like balls that hold their value for many many years? I know as a breeder if/when I come up with something new Im not going to be running around telling people what made it so they can do the same.... Its the same thing as a patent... Prevents others from getting rich off of your hard work... with all that said this is why I say 3-4-5 combo morphs are going to be the future of BPs

But prices cuts are going to happen. Lets say a big breeder with a well known rep, like Adam from 8-ball, sells morph A for $1000. If I also am selling morph A, I'll have to charge a little less to be able to compete. But if I'm selling for a little less, then someone else like me will come along and sell for even less, and so on.

The thing that will keep ball python prices from going too low is that some of the morph combos don't breed true with every generation. If I breed two albinos together, then I'm going to get all albinos. But if I breed a bumble bee together, there's no guarantee I'll get bumble bees. So that will keep the prices from going too low.

And I still stand by what I said earlier of prices dropping being an ok thing. It makes more morphs available to more people, which is good for the hobby. But as you say, if there comes a point where there are more breeders than buyers, then you're in trouble. But I don't see that happening.

[jhall1468]

I dont see how your explanation of your statement really explains how you can want one but dont see how it leads to the other... If people keep dropping prices to the extreme that happened this yr the market is going to be flooded... Soon theres going to be more breeders than buyers and theres your market crash...

The market is dropping significantly, but saying a market crash is eminent is kind of silly.

IMHO, the market is going to substantially increase in sales. The fall in prices are going to open the market to not just breeders and hobbyiest, but Joe Blow that likes snakes. The fall in prices of Pastels is a perfect example. I have a Graziani. The price on Pastels has fallen to $100 in some places. Now I personally won't sell a Pastel for less than $200. If they don't sell, that's cool with me .

The cost of keeping these animals is extremely low. Even if you are paying $1.50 per rat, the total cost of products (for me) has been under $100 per animal per year. Even if you are only producing an average of 2 Pastels per year, you're (at the very least) going to pay your costs.

some morphs lost 500$ in market price in a single season... That drop is going to impact every combo moprh made with this base morph. I dont think prices should stay high forever but there needs to be a reationship between price of a base morph and what it makes. Too many small breeders arnt willing to hold onto their stock for long and just drop the price to get em out of the door.

That just doesn't make ANY sense. There is no correlation between what a morph can make when breed to other morphs. The cost of a combo is based entirely on the cost of the different morphs used to make them.

To go back to my previous example, one member here sold a clutch of male Graz Pastels for $250 shipped. Each one of the buyers COULD have purchased any of those anywhere else for half that. But they still sold. That tells me that the small breeders dumping on the market isn't having the impact you think it is.

I've said it a MILLION times, but Fauna and KS don't set market prices. Take a look at the big breeders sites to get an idea. You think Ralph or Kara and Kevin are having problems with sales? I doubt it. And they certainly aren't selling animals 25% below market (at least, if they are, I would like to know ).

Why cant there be lamborgini like balls that hold their value for many many years?

Now that is funny. Lamborgini's don't hold their value, unless they are limited production. Honda and Toyota lead the auto manufactorers for vehicles that retain their value.

I know as a breeder if/when I come up with something new Im not going to be running around telling people what made it so they can do the same.... Its the same thing as a patent... Prevents others from getting rich off of your hard work... with all that said this is why I say 3-4-5 combo morphs are going to be the future of BPs

Well I still think recessive morphs are the future. Codoms are flooding the market because they are so easy to make. I'm willing to bet, next year, Albinos hold a value higher than Lessers. That really says something... codom morphs, on their own and without a recessive gene in there somewhere, simply aren't going to hold their value.

[Blue Apple Herps]

I have to say that I completely agree. I'm several years from breeding...and by no means am I expecting to make a profit...but it would be nice to get back some of my investment so that I can buy the next cool morph.

Absolutely it would be great to get some money back. But you can't get into herps with the intention or expectations of ever getting your money back. There are just too many things that can happen to prevent that.

[jhall1468]

But prices cuts are going to happen. Lets say a big breeder with a well known rep, like Adam from 8-ball, sells morph A for $1000. If I also am selling morph A, I'll have to charge a little less to be able to compete. But if I'm selling for a little less, then someone else like me will come along and sell for even less, and so on.

I disagree. New companies pop up in every industry. Whether it be ball pythons or dairy farms. And selling cheaper isn't the only method to make sales.

Why should I set my prices lower than Adam? If we are both selling piebalds, his inventory is still limited. Is he going to sell them before I do? Probably. But he's probably going to sell them before I do regardless of price... namely, because his reputation makes him worth the extra few bucks. So once he sells out, I'm now LOSING out because I set my prices cheaper to compete, when in reality, I'm not going to compete anyway.

Of course, my perspective on this isn't about making the most money possible, or getting rid of animals as quickly as I can. Maybe my Piebald won't sell for a year, but I'm willing to bet a yearling Piebald will, when it's only $50 bucks more than a baby.

I keep ball pythons because I love them. If I honestly thought I was going to get rich doing this, I wouldn't be in college .

[Moriar]

we could all just kill the small breeders then only the big companies will remain!!!


no but really. I'm pretty new to the BP scene so im not 100% sure on past prices to current prices. i wish i could add some crazy good insight to this epic thread but i cant really. i agree with the statement made about recessive genes being able to hold value over a co-dom. you take a spider and mate it with 10 normals and you get a boat load of spiders! (not to mention a drained male spider!)

[nevohraalnavnoj]

we could all just kill the small breeders then only the big companies will remain!!!


no but really. I'm pretty new to the BP scene so im not 100% sure on past prices to current prices. i wish i could add some crazy good insight to this epic thread but i cant really. i agree with the statement made about recessive genes being able to hold value over a co-dom. you take a spider and mate it with 10 normals and you get a boat load of spiders! (not to mention a drained male spider!)

the point you have made is EXACTLY the reason why co-dom prices go through the floor: they are too easy to produce. flood in supply=drastic drop in prices.

[WingedWolfPsion]

I just picked up a het albino male at the breeder expo for $35. Had to brag.
(And yes, the breeder has a decent rep, and the snake appears healthy).