IJ Carpet Python X Ball Python!

[jessie_k_pythons]

I am in Awe. I have loved hybrids ever sence I was a wee little girl. I dont think i will ever be breeding my Costal x jungle cp to my BPs (dont have enough knolage to know what I would be doing... leave that to the pros ) but still your babies are , well Just awesome! congrats on the babies!!

[_BoidFinatic_]

I think that is prolly the coolest looking of all the morphs for BP's. Well done. What you charging for those, usually when I see a new breed of a snake they are like $30,000-$60,000+ ?


Also, can you breed these to normals and get more or do you have to do some crazy breeding to get more?

If you breed one of these back to a normal BP the resulting offspring will be 75% BP and 25% IJCP. If those are then bred back to an ICJP, then you will be left with 50% BP and 50% IJCP again. This operation is where it gets tricky though since a 75% BP 25% IJCP animal might look enough like a BP to be sold as one.

These were priced at $6,000, by the way.

[jhall1468]

In reply to this recent post.. Now you're just muttering jumbled babble. The point is a ball python het for albino, is still a pure ball python. It's plain and simple.

Ah I see. You don't understand the analogy so my point is jumbled babble. Typical...

The point was, reputation is what guides this industry. If you are buying from an unreliable breeder than you may end up with a genetically imperfect ball python. That's your problem, not mine. The same can be said of buying hets "on the cheap", and ending up with three years (or more) of work for nothing. The concept is relatively simple, I apologize you didn't understand.

The other point I made was that registrys, such as the AKC, are flawed and work on an honor system.

No, not really. You make a wide-ranging claim without any effort to back it up. Registries aren't simply a matter of an honor system. Photo identification is absolutely required, and impure animals are relatively easy to detect by an experienced eye.

It is fact, though you claimed it's not.

A fact is something that is irrefutable. Did your claim come with a signifigant amount of information supporting it? Nope. You said it's "relatively easy" and I disagree with you. You made the claim that it is easy, the burden of proof is on you.

Read my statements and ask any AKC breeder and they will tell you exactly what I did. Any breeder with two AKC registered animals can register any litter as their own with no requirement to show proof.

Yes, and if a person is caught cheating the registry they are suspended from it. That is a nightmare for any purebred breeder. Which is exactly WHY it doesn't occur as often as you seem to think.

Lastly, I never said anything about Kara/Kev, Ralph, Greg, Adam or Sean or any other breeder here, so I have no damn idea what you are babbling about. Go take a horse pill and relax man.

Actually, you implied breeders would get an impure ball in their collection "by accident" and I was curious if you thought any of the reputable breeders would do that. Seems as though when you're called out on anything you jump on the defensive. Perhaps you should take your own advice in the last sentence .

[SiscoReptiles]

Ah I see. You don't understand the analogy so my point is jumbled babble. Typical...

I understood your babbling, but is it just that babbling.. You are trying to make a point about hybrids, which was already resolved. If a breeder wants to breed a hybrid, they can.. and if you clean the sleepies out of your eyes you would see that I stated that I was not for or against hybrids. I went on to explain HOW someone can end up with a hybrid in your collection. Learn to read a bit. This part of your discussion is mute.. thus you are just babbling on after the discussion was already resolved.

As far as registrys, Not all of them require a photo as proof.. and those that do, rely on the honesty of the breeder to submit the photo of his pups. Sure, if he gets caught cheating the system he will be suspended, but that was not my point.

My point is that if John breeds pure lined poodles and his dogs are registered and then if Jerry has pure, or at least pure looking poodles, he could sell the litter to his buddy John, who could take photos of each one and register the litter as his own. Now if you don't understand that.. I can not explain any more clearly. It is that simple.. the registrys may require proof (photos, notched ears, etc) but who in hell do you think is responsible for making this proof? The owner/breeder. So it does work as an honor system based on trust with the breeders.

Let's put it this simple..

If Joe shows you a picture of an albino and a normal ball python, his male albino and his female normal.. and he sells you a 100% het albino... even if he shows you a picture of a snake and claims it's a het albino.. He can not PROVE that snake is a het albino. That could have been an import he just got.

My point was that there is no way to show proof unless you trust the breeder. Thus a registry is easy to manipulate if someone is dishonest.

Buying from a respected breeder is indeed the way to go, and I never, ever said otherwise. So either you are misreading or you are just trolling. So wipe the sleepies from your eyes, because I am not gonna bite.

Rick

[Atonyblue]

If you are looking to do something that will insure the lines. It needs to start with the professional breeders. I have a couple of breadies that are going to start breeding. In the BD world, Fire and Ice dragons (quality breeders) are starting a pedigree program. This allows you to trace your dragons line to avoid inbreeding and heritage. One of the most famous bd breeders was chris allen reds. High quality red dragons now that he has gotten out of the business alot of his breeding dragons are spread around and advertised as Male Chris Allen Red then whatever the name is. We as collectors know his dragons by names, but who is to say that I didn't get a red dragon that is somewhere connected down the line to one of his. It is a shame that only dogs and cats get the treatment that all animals deserve. I think getting a pedigree system would work to the advantage of collectors and breeders of all high quality animals. Just a thought though.

[jhall1468]

I understood your babbling, but is it just that babbling..

Was that intended as a question? No it wasn't babbling, I wasn't making a point that apparently you had some difficulty following .

You are trying to make a point about hybrids, which was already resolved. If a breeder wants to breed a hybrid, they can.. and if you clean the sleepies out of your eyes you would see that I stated that I was not for or against hybrids.

Yes, and I could claim I'm against drinking and than spout on and on about the merits of it. Think anyone is going to believe my original statement? Truly, if we all get to breed hybrids and every one is hunky dory with that, this entire discussion is pointless. However, I don't believe anyone appointed you leader of the discussion, so... I'll go ahead and make my point anyway, if that's alright with you.

I went on to explain HOW someone can end up with a hybrid in your collection. Learn to read a bit. This part of your discussion is mute.. thus you are just babbling on after the discussion was already resolved.

Yes... you beat that horse into a bloody pulp. I happen to think it's total garbage, because the entire situation relies on dealing with untrustworthy people in the first place. And while you may feel my point is "mute" (it's moot by the way), I disagree. If you're going to argue on and on that it's so easy to get a genetically impure ball python, I'm going to argue that you're wrong .

As far as registrys, Not all of them require a photo as proof.. and those that do, rely on the honesty of the breeder to submit the photo of his pups. Sure, if he gets caught cheating the system he will be suspended, but that was not my point.

No registries aren't perfect. Nothing is perfect... if you buy an Italian leather sofa, how do you know it's really Italian leather? If you buy a signed Les Paul guitar, how do you know it's really Les Paul's signature? Honestly, you've been whining gloom and doom since you entered the thread and it's becoming a bore. Can the system be beaten? Sure, does that mean your indications that it's "easy" is true? Nope.

My point is that if John breeds pure lined poodles and his dogs are registered and then if Jerry has pure, or at least pure looking poodles, he could sell the litter to his buddy John, who could take photos of each one and register the litter as his own. Now if you don't understand that.. I can not explain any more clearly. It is that simple.. the registrys may require proof (photos, notched ears, etc) but who in hell do you think is responsible for making this proof? The owner/breeder. So it does work as an honor system based on trust with the breeders.

And you can avoid that entirely by buying from respected breeders in the first place. Prosecution rests.

If Joe shows you a picture of an albino and a normal ball python, his male albino and his female normal.. and he sells you a 100% het albino... even if he shows you a picture of a snake and claims it's a het albino.. He can not PROVE that snake is a het albino. That could have been an import he just got.

Funny, when I made a similar analogy it was babble... now you use it. Make up your mind already.

My point was that there is no way to show proof unless you trust the breeder. Thus a registry is easy to manipulate if someone is dishonest.

So is the entire industry! Do you get it now?... Here let me make this really simple for you:

NOTHING is guaranteed whether it's a hybrid or a het. We all know that, but you've really beaten this hybrid thing to death. The entire industry is based on reputation, so your entire point is kind of redundant.

Buying from a respected breeder is indeed the way to go, and I never, ever said otherwise. So either you are misreading or you are just trolling. So wipe the sleepies from your eyes, because I am not gonna bite.

I've been awake for some time, thanks . I'm just trying to understand what your point was. Personally, I'm not sure what your posts brought to the thread at all. If, after 3 pages, the above paragraph was your entire point, might I suggest it be a lot easier just to say that and move on?

[sw204me]

Can't wait to see these bad boys in Daytona, best looking BP out there imo.

P.S. Your alls post have cliff notes anywhere?

[Mendel's Balls]

To the person that posted this as feedback....

"So your going to tell me Indian's were genetic engineers and made corn?"

Yes, Native Americans (or Indians") were sort of crude genetic engineers. Corn is not a natural plant....it was created by artificial selection of the teosinte plant. This is very well documented.

Agriculture in many ways hurts biodiversity. The trick I believe is to be responsible ecological managers and stewards to protect and sustain civilization for future generations. We can must science, technology, and reasoned ethics in order to accomplish this!

I am by no means saying that unatural things are always good for the environment and/or human health...I am totally against the use of antibiotics in livestock. We should protect our the money, hard work, and research that goes into producing new antibiotics by reversing them for human diseases. Farming and cattle rancher lobbies and many vets
fight this idea tooth and nail.

I am just saying that instead of basing what is good for the environment or health on a false "natural" vs "unnatural" dichotomy try basing it on real science instead. There isn't much science that shows GM crops or livestock is any worse for you or the environment. Does that mean in every case a GM crop will be harmless? No....there might be some cost...

but careful research and cost/benefit analysis will provide us with the answers not new age ideology on what is natural or "ecological"

Try reading this.......http://www.nyas.org/publications/upd...sp?updateID=58

[SiscoReptiles]

I'm going to argue that you're wrong .

It seems arguing is all you want to do.

No registries aren't perfect.

Exactly. I have explained how any registered breeder can bring in impure animals into the registry as pure. You don't show me how you think that the registries stop that, but instead.. as pointed out above by yourself.. you just want to argue that I am wrong.

And you can avoid that entirely by buying from respected breeders in the first place. Funny, when I made a similar analogy it was babble... now you use it. Make up your mind already.

I am pretty sure I stated that before you began your self-proclaimed "argument".

NOTHING is guaranteed whether it's a hybrid or a het. We all know that, but you've really beaten this hybrid thing to death. The entire industry is based on reputation, so your entire point is kind of redundant.

I'd say my point, that registries are flawed, easy to manipulate and will not be a 100% way of keeping track of hybrids, is not redundant. I would state that you arguing that registries require proof and are not easy to manipulate is pretty well diluted by your own logic that "Nothing is guaranteed".

Personally, I'm not sure what your posts brought to the thread at all.

I think my posts were my part of a discussion, and I am sure you will attempt to 'argue' this, but this is a discussion forum. I held a discussion with the breeder of the snakes that were originally the topic of the discussion until you went on your tangent. I posted my thoughts and opinions. Based on the comments and reputation I was left, I would say many agree with me. The whole topic was resolved before you showed up with your argumentative demeanor.

As stated, the hybrid issue was posted, read and resolved before you even got into it. To accuse me of dragging this out and beating it to a bloody pulp is like blaming a fish for jumping onto a trolling line. Pull in your line Mr Fisherman and stop trolling.

To everyone else reading this.. I apologize for wasting your time, as well as mine, getting dragged into this with jhall. Obviously he gets that the registry systems are flawed, yet still wants to argue that they are not (while admitting they are). At this point I am done with his game, but I do hope that you read the posts prior to jhall and I getting stuck in this loop and glean some useful information. You do not need to agree or disagree.. but hopefully you come out with a better understanding about why some people have such a strong issue with hybrids.

Personally I look forward to meeting smilin-buddha and checking out these animals.. Ok, ok.. and I look forward to the beer also. See you in Daytona.

Rick

[jhall1468]

Exactly. I have explained how any registered breeder can bring in impure animals into the registry as pure. You don't show me how you think that the registries stop that, but instead.. as pointed out above by yourself.. you just want to argue that I am wrong.

Yes, I believe you're wrong. You make it sound as if a registry is pointless because they are so "easily" cheated and I think you are dead wrong. And yes, I think your original point was so incredibly moot, this whole issue has become useless. You are making an argument about hybrids that is no different than an argument about ANY animal, whether it be a morph, hybrid, het or anything else.

So yes... I think you are wrong about the ease of cheating registries (and as proof, look at the success of AKC), and I think your entire point is moot because it applies to everything in the industry.

I am pretty sure I stated that before you began your self-proclaimed "argument".

Then you should have left it at that and we would have agreed.

I'd say my point, that registries are flawed, easy to manipulate and will not be a 100% way of keeping track of hybrids, is not redundant. I would state that you arguing that registries require proof and are not easy to manipulate is pretty well diluted by your own logic that "Nothing is guaranteed".

I never agreed that they are "easy" to manipulate. They aren't. It's possible, sure, but not easy by any stretch. So, perhaps, a class on logical conclusion might do you some good.

Obviously he gets that the registry systems are flawed, yet still wants to argue that they are not (while admitting they are).

Typical... you'll notice I never once said they were flawless. I was arguing that they aren't as flawed as you indicate they are. If you can't manage to understand the difference, there's nothing else I can do.