IJ Carpet Python X Ball Python!

[SiscoReptiles]

Personally, I think a better solution would be a national registry for balls. I really don't understand why one doesn't already exist.

A registry is too easy to manipulate.

Example..

Joe is a registered ball breeder and a member of the registery.

He gets a clutch of balls that hatched and registered each one.

Later Joe is hard up for money and be buys someone elses clutch of balls and registers them as his own so he can resell them for more. Perhaps they were hybrids.

Or.. perhaps Jerry registers as a member of the registry and Jerry doesn't even breed balls, but we dont know it. He claims to have 14 clutches of normals or hets this season, but later we find out they were all imports.

It's a great idea. I had given it thought years ago, but it's too easy to manipulate.

Rick

[SarahMB]

A registry is too easy to manipulate.

Isn't the whole point of a registry that the blood lines have to be proven, and they give you a stronger legal leg to stand on agains breeder fraud?

[jhall1468]

A registry is too easy to manipulate.

Example..

Joe is a registered ball breeder and a member of the registery.

He gets a clutch of balls that hatched and registered each one.

Later Joe is hard up for money and be buys someone elses clutch of balls and registers them as his own so he can resell them for more. Perhaps they were hybrids.

Or.. perhaps Jerry registers as a member of the registry and Jerry doesn't even breed balls, but we dont know it. He claims to have 14 clutches of normals or hets this season, but later we find out they were all imports.

It's a great idea. I had given it thought years ago, but it's too easy to manipulate.

There are a ton of animal registries in the world, with Horses and Canine's being the largest. No they aren't "easy" to manipulate by any means. If there's no "checking" involved, than it isn't a registry. It's a list of people selling animals and we are to take them at their word.

Buy from a quality breeder, and you won't have such issues. Anyone with a great deal of experience with any single animal is going to be able to tell when there's mixed blood. Stud hunters and dog breeders do it all the time.

[SiscoReptiles]

Sadly, it is indeed easy to manipulate most registrys, such as the AKC. If a registered breeder 'claims' the litter of pups came from his AKC registered Sire and AKC registered Dame.. That is all that is required for that breeder to register that litter of pups.

I agree that if you buy from a breeder with a good reputation and you will have less chance of getting taken advantage of, but the whole idea of a registry to keep track of pure ball pythons still comes down to a system of trust.

How do you prove the 5 puppys you just registered is from the two dogs that you have registered? You can't.

Let's say I run a registery for ball pythons and you have two snakes registered with me. You have a clutch of eggs and they hatch. How do you prove to me that the hatchlings are from those two snakes?

Rick

[jhall1468]

How do you prove the 5 puppys you just registered is from the two dogs that you have registered? You can't.

By that logic we should all be really mad about hets. The simple fact of the matter is... there is no such thing as a full-proof system. People cheat, lie, steal, and do anything else they can to make a free buck. So, in the mean time, so why not argue for the banning of Albinos, Piebalds and Clowns? With a hybrid, at least there's going to be SOME sign of genetic abnormality there... no such luck with hets.

Once again buying from reputable breeders will make it a non-issue. Do you think Kara/Kevin, Ralph or Greg are going to allow a genetic hybrid in their collections without knowing it? Even smaller breeders like Adam and Sean? If there's anything a person should learn in this industry, it's that expectations are rarely valid and reputation means everything.

[SiscoReptiles]

By that logic we should all be really mad about hets. The simple fact of the matter is... there is no such thing as a full-proof system. People cheat, lie, steal, and do anything else they can to make a free buck. So, in the mean time, so why not argue for the banning of Albinos, Piebalds and Clowns? With a hybrid, at least there's going to be SOME sign of genetic abnormality there... no such luck with hets.

Once again buying from reputable breeders will make it a non-issue. Do you think Kara/Kevin, Ralph or Greg are going to allow a genetic hybrid in their collections without knowing it? Even smaller breeders like Adam and Sean? If there's anything a person should learn in this industry, it's that expectations are rarely valid and reputation means everything.

In reply to this recent post.. Now you're just muttering jumbled babble. The point is a ball python het for albino, is still a pure ball python. It's plain and simple.

The other point I made was that registrys, such as the AKC, are flawed and work on an honor system. It is fact, though you claimed it's not. Read my statements and ask any AKC breeder and they will tell you exactly what I did. Any breeder with two AKC registered animals can register any litter as their own with no requirement to show proof.

Lastly, I never said anything about Kara/Kev, Ralph, Greg, Adam or Sean or any other breeder here, so I have no damn idea what you are babbling about. Go take a horse pill and relax man.

Rick

[AndrewGeibel]

I think this whole argument is pointless. Either the person has the moral capacity to claim what he or she has or doesn't have or they don't. I don't see any problems with crossing different snakes as long as the breeder and buyer both know what they are getting into. The problem is that some people are not responsible with what they produce. If only people were allintelligent and were conscience about the decisions they were making and how they affect other people and animals everything would be better.

[sw204me]

I think that is prolly the coolest looking of all the morphs for BP's. Well done. What you charging for those, usually when I see a new breed of a snake they are like $30,000-$60,000+ ?


Also, can you breed these to normals and get more or do you have to do some crazy breeding to get more?

[sweety314]

In reply to this recent post.. Now you're just muttering jumbled babble. The point is a ball python het for albino, is still a pure ball python. It's plain and simple.

The other point I made was that registrys, such as the AKC, are flawed and work on an honor system. It is fact, though you claimed it's not. Read my statements and ask any AKC breeder and they will tell you exactly what I did. Any breeder with two AKC registered animals can register any litter as their own with no requirement to show proof.

Lastly, I never said anything about Kara/Kev, Ralph, Greg, Adam or Sean or any other breeder here, so I have no damn idea what you are babbling about. Go take a horse pill and relax man.

Rick

Possibly (re: the AKC) but MOST, if not all, mammal registries, you have to provide PICTURE proof of the individual animal as well as breeding certificates for the known dam and sire. It's hard to fudge an AQHA, or APHA/ApHA registry application b/c the pictures have to be submitted for the foal. I can see where it would be a little more difficult for balls *can be done, but more work* due to mult. hatchlings and animals aren't as varied visually (in some cases). For the AYC (American Yorkshire Club), the litters can all be registered, and you CAN identify individual animals, but you're notching the ears. BUT there's nothing stopping someone from registering a grade gilt, as long as she exhibits the physical characteristics of a Yorshire and has the right notch numbers in her ears.

[sweety314]

I think this whole argument is pointless. Either the person has the moral capacity to claim what he or she has or doesn't have or they don't. I don't see any problems with crossing different snakes as long as the breeder and buyer both know what they are getting into. The problem is that some people are not responsible with what they produce. If only people were allintelligent and were conscience about the decisions they were making and how they affect other people and animals everything would be better.

True, but what about 3 or 4 owners in the future who try to breed, not realising that this twice-crossed-back is a hybrid??? They may NOT know.....