Pine Debate!!!

[lord jackel]

But, if anyone ever asks me directly, I vote, "no," on pine. Rats have way too sensitive respiratory systems. I try to avoid anything that may be harmful, or at least uncomfortable, to mine. I trust what I've read and have been told by vets and by rat enthusiasts, and nothing will ever change my mind about pine. I haven't dropped my "no" vote for this many years, nothing will sway my decision for it.

So what you are really saying is you won't use pine again...LOL JK

I too have been breeding rats for years (12+) and have tried everything. Like Tim, Aspen just got too expensive so I am currently using Pine (and have been for the past few months) and haven't noticed any difference in my rats breething or sneezing. I would suggest it could also be based on the amount of air flow you have...less would allow dust and phenols to build up which "might" be a source of issue (but this could be the case for any bedding)...but if you look across all the data available there is no clear cut ruling that pine is bad for rats.

On a side note I am also testing a new compressed pine pellet to see how it holds up...I will let you know how it goes if interested.

[Rakshasi]

So what you are really saying is you won't use pine again...LOL JK

Yes, I think you've got the basic outline of it...*lol*

I'm just very iffy about using pine because of the amount of rats I've had that seem...allergic??...to it, I guess you'd call it. I don't have any proof that it's bad, but it has been bad to my rats in my experience. I'm no scientist, so I don't know exactly why it's been that way, I just know I don't go back to things that gave me bad results. I have a very open mind, but when I see things cause harm, I can't open back up to them. I'm sure that's understandable. I'd never tell anyone that they CAN'T use it, because I don't really mind what others do. All I do is voice my opinion, and whoever finds it useful, well, that's just a perk.

Totally off-topic, but...I see in your signature you have blue and platinum rats...if they came from your litters, how did you produce them? Those two colors are so gorgeous to me (as well as fawn), but I can't get any neat colors, lately, no matter who I pair up. I don't want to make this topic too off, but I can't control my curiousity.

[lord jackel]

[QUOTE=Rakshasi]
Totally off-topic, but...I see in your signature you have blue and platinum rats...if they came from your litters, how did you produce them? Those two colors are so gorgeous to me (as well as fawn), but I can't get any neat colors, lately, no matter who I pair up. I don't want to make this topic too off, but I can't control my curiousity.[/QUOTE

Yes...I picked up a blue self from a friend (a couple of years ago) and have been selectively breeding to get - blue self, blue hooded, blue capped (and Dumbo versions of the same). I am currently working on a blue point siamese...which should be really cool if I get any (it is a triple het trait so really tough)

As for the Platinum the original was a fluke from a non-descript carrier...I haven't had as much success get much from this gene...either my Platnium also carry some bad genes or this gene is associated to weaker animals as I get a lot of babies that develop head tilt and tumors so I end up feeding them off quickly.

To bad you don't live closer I could hook you up with some colors and patterns.

[Ginevive]

I have made my official decision; I am going with aspen shavings (not the higher-end aspen shreds that people usually use for snakes, but actual big, fluffy shavings.) They are very dry and really, when it comes down to it, their price is not much different than the compressed pine that I can get in our area. The aspen is definately drier than the pine; anyone who has lived in the country and knows about starting fires will tell you; pine is moist and sappy. I have used the "driest" pine I could buy (made by Pestell) and still, it has a sappy feeling to me that just does not sit wight with me for using under rats that will be fed to my snakes. Not to mention, there is only one place local here that sells pine at a very low price, and 9 out of 10 of their bags are WET inside! My friend was buying it for her pet store, and it was already sopping wet!! I could not eevn salvage a bale and toss it into my hrose stalls because it was that wet.
I do not like pellet bedding unless something cushy is provided for the rats to nest with. I could not imagine sleeping on wood pellets!

[Rakshasi]

I am currently working on a blue point siamese...which should be really cool if I get any (it is a triple het trait so really tough)

As for the Platinum the original was a fluke from a non-descript carrier...I haven't had as much success get much from this gene...either my Platnium also carry some bad genes or this gene is associated to weaker animals as I get a lot of babies that develop head tilt and tumors so I end up feeding them off quickly.

To bad you don't live closer I could hook you up with some colors and patterns.

Blue point siamese! Ooh, you have to show pictures when you produce some. I demand it, haha. Good luck!

That's a really crummy deal on the platinums, though. Sorry to hear that. They're such a pretty coat color, too.

And even though we live a long distance apart, and it's next to impossible, I very much appreciate the idea you've thrown out there! That's definitely nice of you.

My apologies for short, uninformative responses...I've been up for far too long, and I still am unable to force myself to sleep (insomnia). At least I have somewhere to go online that's never boring.

Ginevive,
I'll have to agree that pine does feel very sappy to me, as well. I used to be a country girl, myself, so I understand that fire bit. Now, fires are as easy as a match and a tree. I live in a dry, deserty area. It's rare to find anything excessively moist, so when I do, I can feel it well. I like how dry aspen usually is, and not very dusty. Though, I will admit that I've found at least a few bags that seemed to have a fair amount of dust.

Where did you get fluffy aspen shavings from? Both my rats and dogs would appreciate something a little less stiff (dogs have a roomy doghouse outside, which i fill with fresh aspen every now and then just in case they'd rather be in there than outside, though 3 out of 4 prefer being inside the house so the other one is who it's really for).

[Ginevive]

Here ya go! I get mine at markheim pets near Buffalo, NY. It's a big bag/bale, about waist-high if next to me; and I am about 5 foot 4. Brand name is Nepco.

Looks..

[lord jackel]

I used to use the same Aspen for my snakes cages . I really liked it very low in dust and clean. I used to get mine for $9 a bale...the pet store that carried it went out of business so I had to switch brands


Anyway good choice.

[Ginevive]

mine was/is $11. Not that bad.. I spend more on lunch daily at work for one day One bag literally lasts a few months for me. I am using it for my corn because he seems to like the ability to burrow/slither through it, and it is helping to retain humidity for his shed.

[Freakie_frog]

well I am trying something new for my new little rats. I am mixing pine and aspen together to see if it helps with the smell more.

[Rakshasi]

Thank you, Ginevive! That type does look a bit more comfortable than the stuff in the smaller bags. I'm going to contact our local feed store and see if they have anything like that. The bag/bale size sounds like it'd save me some money, too. Awesome!