Disaster!

[Wolfsnaps]

It's not our fault you "feel like crap" hon
. Also don't tell me you spend a ton of your pets when you stuffed all those rats in a 10 gallon tank. They are $10.00 brand new at WalMart and another $12.00 for a good wire lid and clips, another $5.00 for a water bottle, $2.00 or less for a food dish. If you want to breed more females then you first spend the $29.00 on the tank and lid...not after they are all stuffed in there.

Hon???Always thought that was a term of endearment? lol.

I had the ten gallon tank. I was at an expo, bought a trio and put them in the tank temporarily. I had every intention of putting them into a larger tank. But now I am glad because a cage has better ventilation. SO I will get a cage instead.

SO yes, I probably should have bought a cage first, then bought the rats. But I didn't. I guess I am not perfect, go firgure.

[TekWarren]

I'll try and add some positive reinforcement here to help turn the topic around. To prevent such things from happening to my reptiles and rodents they are all kept behind closed doors (locking isn't out of the question). No people or other animals go in without me knowing. We don't have cats at the moment but we do have two dogs. One is a Jack Russel...bred for hunting and killing small animals. Neither dogs are allowed in the room unless we are in there with them.

I have had escaped animals in the past as well so I'm not perfect in that regard. Luckily again behind closed doors makes the find easier. My beef was with the cat issue also...it may be the way you worded that made it seem vile to all of us. Saying that you threw a cat into the snow and that you took pleasure in seeing it suffer from the cold elements doesn't put a happy picture in most minds.

[Wolfsnaps]

NO no...I had a screen lid on the tank but I wanted to get an expansion topper, like a second story. of course...I wouldnt keep rats (especially these jumpers) in a cage with no lid...wow, what do you think I am.


Yes, I was mean. I took out stuff on my cat. I don't think it was that bad though really. He was outside for an hour tops. He was originally an outside cat and would still be living outside if I didn't bring him in. I didn't beat him...I just tossed him outside. You guys are using words like "abuse" when this cat is spoiled rotten.

[frankykeno]

Nobody is perfect but the simple fact is we are the responsible parties. Buying live creatures with nowhere to house them isn't fair to them. Rodents or not, they deserve their simple and very basic needs met or we can wait to get them when we are setup. I've had bigger litters born and had to do the fast run out to the store to get more tanks/tubs. It's not terribly convenient but you do what is right by the animals you are responsible for. So the male was in with both females in that 10? Perhaps I'm confused.

Lawrence, one quick comment about dogs/cats and rodents. You can very well train a dog or cat to avoid rodents but the simple fact is you are fighting a bit of a losing battle against instinct, both in the rats and in the other pets. Our dog is very interested in the rodent cages. She hasn't shown aggression but the female breeders are upset by her being close. They run to bury their litters or become tense and aggressive. Is that fair to them? They are basically trapped with what they perceive as a predator lurking near their litters. Sure they are "only" feeders but I just don't think that's terribly nice for them to be in fear and unable to escape. We don't allow Gunnar to approach the rats because of this. She is also never allowed loose when a rat or snake is out of it's enclosure. Why tempt fate or have creatures stressed for no good reason.

[Wolfsnaps]

Three asf rats in a ten gallon isnt bad. I had a place to house them, its not like I bought them and then thought, oh crap, ill just put them in a shoe box......Then the mama rat had her litter and I took the male out. Maybe thats where I lost you Franky. But I left the other female because she was helping with the litter so much. The father was too but it was a little too much in that cage and he did the least so he was transferred elsewhere. I read that non-nursing asf females can be stimulated to lactate by some other rats babies so I left her in there too. She was a better mommy than the actual mother.

[frankykeno]

Having the information these were ASF's and not regular rats who are much larger might have been a bit of a help so I'll apologize if their housing/husbandry needs are less than the rats most of us are more familar with. The rest stands.

[xdeus]

Lawrence, one quick comment about dogs/cats and rodents. You can very well train a dog or cat to avoid rodents but the simple fact is you are fighting a bit of a losing battle against instinct, both in the rats and in the other pets. Our dog is very interested in the rodent cages. She hasn't shown aggression but the female breeders are upset by her being close. They run to bury their litters or become tense and aggressive. Is that fair to them? They are basically trapped with what they perceive as a predator lurking near their litters. Sure they are "only" feeders but I just don't think that's terribly nice for them to be in fear and unable to escape. We don't allow Gunnar to approach the rats because of this. She is also never allowed loose when a rat or snake is out of it's enclosure. Why tempt fate or have creatures stressed for no good reason.

Unfortunately many people do have multiple, naturally competive pets in the same environment: birds and cats, cats and dogs, cats and rodents, etc. I agree with you that it is unfair to stress out feeder rats if one can avoid it, but most feeder rats are not tamed and act mostly on instinct regardless of the situation. I know mine behave just as if I was a predator by cowering and covering up their young whenever I check on them.

My point was that pets can be taught to cohabitate. That could mean something as simple as placing the feeder rats in a secure enclosure on a shelf or rack and teaching your cat not to jump up on the rack. Or if people have enough patience, they can teach their cat to get along with a pet rat even though it goes against both of their instincts.

[jglass38]

Unfortunately many people do have multiple, naturally competive pets in the same environment: birds and cats, cats and dogs, cats and rodents, etc. I agree with you that it is unfair to stress out feeder rats if one can avoid it, but most feeder rats are not tamed and act mostly on instinct regardless of the situation. I know mine behave just as if I was a predator by cowering and covering up their young whenever I check on them.

My point was that pets can be taught to cohabitate. That could mean something as simple as placing the feeder rats in a secure enclosure on a shelf or rack and teaching your cat not to jump up on the rack. Or if people have enough patience, they can teach their cat to get along with a pet rat even though it goes against both of their instincts.

Although I still practice utmost safety and keep them separated, my cats have no interest in the rats anymore. We have one cat that we have even socialized with a couple of our breeders. I sometimes leave the rat room open when I am there and the cats may stand next to the rack and look in. I have no doubt that if one escaped though, that they would pounce and do what comes naturally. We once had parakeets for about 2 weeks. We hung the cage from the ceiling and the cats still found a way to torment them and eventually knocked the cage down to the floor. We came home to find birds flying around the kitchen. It just wasn't worth it to have to worry about the birds safety every day. Same thing with the snakes and cats. They couldn't care less and have even been socialized a bit with a couple of the smaller Balls.

[Wolfsnaps]

I do appreciate what everyone has to say on the matter. I don't expect a cat to change its ways, or stop teach them to ignore their instincts. I just didn't think my cat (who is somewhat small) could knock over the tank AND THEN take the lid off. I guess I am naive to cat ways since this little guy is my first but I just didn't see it coming!

I don't think I would have the patience to try to teach the cat anything like that...I have noticed that cats are pretty persistant when they want something.
We are renovating right now so the only safe place to keep the pets is the bedroom....It isn't ideal. But I am excited that the place we live is expanding and soon the animals WILL be serperated. Until then though (it only gets done as fast and my fiance and his buddies work on it) the animals will have to cohabitate.

When I started this thread I was just venting. I didn't realize you guys thought that these were regular rats or that I had to explain the reason they were in the same room...I guess that gets confusing. But anyways, no big deal

[TekWarren]

...another family argument coming to an end, pizza and movies for dinner!