Advice on lighting

[TheDoctor]

Hi all,

I had a beardie that died at 7 months and I`m still sceptical on the actual cause of death. I`m thinking of getting another one and wonder if lighting has anything to do with it.

Does a hatchling require lighting 24/7 even with the right temps? and how about adults?

Any advice is much appreciated, thanks.

[JLC]

No animal that I'm aware of requires lighting 24/7. Beardies do need a source of UVB light during the day, though. Just heat isn't enough. They need the UVB to help them process certain vitamins and minerals that go into growing bones and such.

[daniel1983]

24/7 light cycles are used by some (including myself) on burrowing species of monitor lizards. The concept focuses on the point that if a proper soil is provided for burrowing...inside the burrow/hiding area, the monitor will not be able to differentiate between 'daytime' and 'nightime' and will conduct it's basic functions whenever the need arises.

However, providing 24/7 lighting for an animal like a bearded dragon can be very unhealthy since they have what is called a 'third eye'....easily seen on the top of a bearded' head by an out of place looking 'dot' of scales. The 'eye' does not actually see...it functions as a 'light detector' to supply needed light sensitive environmental information to the bearded dragon such as day/night. Bearded not exposed to darkness will not get the proper rest will have all kind of problems which can lead to death. No heating lamp is needed for bearded dragons at night and supplemental heating is only needed if your nighttime temperatures drop below 72 degrees.

As far as the type of lighting is concerned, you MUST have a light that emits UVB wavelengths of light. Without UVB light, dragons are unable to process the calcuim ingested in their food items and will eventually become disabled and die from MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease). The UVB requirement goes for the majority of lizards with the exception of nocturnal lizards and monitor lizards. Also, calcuim suppliments and vitamins should also be used to help keep the nutrients that beardies utilize available.

Since you mentioned you had a young bearded, may I ask what kind of substrate you were keeping it on? Sandy or loose substrates have been know to cause impacted feces in young dragons which results in death. A sandy/loose substrate coupled with improper hydration will pretty much always result in the death of a baby dragon.

If you have concerns about your previous setup for the dead bearded, could you please describe how you were keeping the animal (i.e. feeding, watering, heating, and other housing information) so that some of here may be able to tell you what might have caused the issues that led the death of the animal.

[TheDoctor]

Thanks so much for the replies.

I used fine sand as substrate ( by exoterra ).
Temps cool side 80F, warm side 92F and room temp at night which is around 77-80F.
A photoperiod of about 12hrs on and 12hrs off was provided and I used
"Sun Light" by exoterra.
Humidity was between 50-55%.
His staple diet was appropriately sized calcium dusted crickets and greens.
But he was fed almost exclusively on mealworms on the first few days I got him, could that have been a factor?

He had seizures when he was 4 months and that was when I took him to the vet. He was actually boarded out at the vet for 2 months, and his spine and tail were already malformed by then. The vet told me that it was due to lack of calcium at the early stages but he was fed on calcium dusted crickets, so I was really puzzled. I was advised by the vet to add vitamin E supplements.

I could not identify any one particular area where I went wrong, but I guess the substrate may have had an impact and so too the mealworms.
But most beardies are kept on sand substrate and do just fine,
that`s why I`m just full of ????

[daniel1983]

Sand can kill baby beardies(and even adults) due to impaction. Most beardies are kept that way due to uneducated keeping.

Also, I am not familiar with that exoterra bulb....if it does not produce UVB rays then it is useless...without exposure to the proper UVB light, your beardie could not process the calcium (no matter how much you supplement)...and from the way you described your bearded's problems, your beardie had MBD due to lack of proper UVB lighting.

Also, were you feeding molted mealworms? The chitin in mealworm shells can also lead to impaction in beardies....that is why it is suggested to only feed molted mealworms (the white ones).

[KeithTN]

It's possible that the bulb did not produce the UVB needed for Calcium absorbtion. I'm not sure about the specs on that brand of bulb and I can't find any info on the net, after a quick search.

The bulb needs to be a 8% to 10% UVB bulb. Your timer for the bulb is right, 12 hr on 12 hr off. For heat, i use an overhead ceramic heater dialed in at about 95 degrees on one end of the enclosure (a 40 gal breeder tank lined w/newspaper). This way my beardy is able to self regulate his temp. I do provide a basking area under my UVB lamp that gets him within 6 to 8 inches of the bulb. I feed him dusted crickets, meal worms, pheonix worms(when I can afford them), and a veggie mix of turnip greens and collard greens.

I got my beardy in May. He was only about 5-6 inches long. Now he is pushing 12 inches or so, man these little guys grow fast.

[TheDoctor]

Well, now I`m pretty sure he died of MBD.

Sorry to ask this, but what does the B stand for in UVB?
I did use a UV bulb but not sure of the percentage and I`ve thrown the box.

He may also had been impacted probably due to the substrate and mealworms too since he wasn`t fed on molted mealworms.

Thanks so much for all the input, now I know what to have and what to avoid in future, but I`d really appreciate if anyone could give some basics on UV/UVB, thanks a million.

[elevatethis]

I will second the opinion that the dragon died of MBD. Your vet was correct, sort of, in that the tremors he had were caused by MBD.

Daniel hit it on the head in his post above.

Even though you supplemented his diet with calcium, that calcium wouldn't do him any good if he didn't have any UVB exposure, which allows them to sythesize vitamin D3, which is a key element in calcium absorbtion. If the dragon can't make D3, it can't absorb the calcium.

This taken from BeautifulDragons.com:

http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/MBD.html

MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease)



In general, metabolic bone disease is the weakening of the bone caused by an imbalance in vitamin D3, calcium, and phosphorus. Several foods, which have a high calcium content, such as spinach, carrots, collards, chards and other thick leafy greens, also contain oxalates, which bind to calcium. When foods high in oxalates are eaten by a beardie, the oxalates attack the calcium and make it useless in their body.

Vitamin D3, calcium, and phosphorus interact together to perform a number of functions besides bone growth and maintenance, including muscle contractions and blood coagulation. Too much phosphorus can throw this balance off, as can too much or too little vitamin D3 or too little access to UVB light. As the dangers of calcium deficiency become more widely known, there is also the risk of too much calcium (hypercalcemia), which is rare.

Signs of metabolic bone disease include hard knobs in the long bones of the legs, bumps along the vertebral column of the back and tail, and softening or hard swelling of the lower jaw. Regular physical exams are important as these bumps may be felt before they can usually be seen. Visible signs of moderate to severe MBD include jerky movements when walking, repeated tremors, twitches, or spasms in the limbs and muscles of the legs and toes when at rest or after exercise, and shakiness when being held. More advanced cases of MBD include all the above signs plus constipation, anorexia, and fractured bones. Severely deficient Beardies tend to be lethargic and may only be able to drag themselves along the ground.

There are several treatment options available for Beardies suffering from MBD. Moderate to severe cases of MBD require the proper diet, temperatures, and UVB as well as a more powerful calcium supplement than those found in pet stores. Oral administration of calcium glubionate (NeoCalglucon®, 1cc/kg) or injections of calcium lactate (Calphosan, 250 mg/kg) or calcium gluconate (100 mg/kg) are generally prescribed by veterinarians. Studies have shown a faster recovery with calcitonin (Calcimar, Miacalcin, 50 IU/kg in the front leg, repeated once a week for two weeks) when it is administered to Beardies who have a normal serum calcium level. A blood test by your vet will determine your Beardies serum calcium level. The use of calcitonin before normal levels have been established, may cause hypocalcemic tetany and death. In mild cases of MBD, where the signs are felt or just barely visible, can be treated by correcting the diet and environment.

The proper amount of UVB light is important and necessary in treating and preventing MBD. Vets have prescribed the use of self-balasted mercury vapor UVB/heat bulbs as part of the treatment for MBD. These bulbs have a UVB element and a heat element, all rolled into one. I have these bulbs in all of my Beardie enclosures and am astonished with the results. After a few weeks of installing the new bulbs, I noticed a major color enhancement in all of my beardies!

Along with proper day and night temperature gradients and a nighttime dark period, proper diet is essential to recovery. During recovery, your beardie should be fed calcium-rich, nutrient dense foods such as squashes, green beans, mustard greens, dandelions, escarole, and papaya. The food should be supplemented with additional calcium and a multi-vitamin formulated for reptiles. See my Nutrition page for more info on calcium rich foods.

[_BoidFinatic_]

Well, now I`m pretty sure he died of MBD.

Sorry to ask this, but what does the B stand for in UVB?
I did use a UV bulb but not sure of the percentage and I`ve thrown the box.

UV (ultra-violet) is just a part of the electro-magnetic spectrum which is visible to many animals but not humans. UVB is the wavelength of UV that is shorter than UVA and longer than UVC. The "B" means nothing, although when added to "UV," it is clear what just wavelength you are reffering to.

[TheDoctor]

UV (ultra-violet) is just a part of the electro-magnetic spectrum which is visible to many animals but not humans. UVB is the wavelength of UV that is shorter than UVA and longer than UVC. The "B" means nothing, although when added to "UV," it is clear what just wavelength you are reffering to.

Thanks but I`m still
Any help please..thanks