Spiders????

[djslurp1200]

Price is not the most important. The best deal is a quality, healthy, beautiful animal and a seller that backs up their stock and offers A+ customer service. However this does not have to come with a huge price.
I see no one here going 'look for the cheapest animal so you don't have to pay'. I see people that have worked hard for their money and are wanting to invest in something they enjoy and being selective on who they spend money with.

No matter how we go about it though price plays a big part. There is no logical reason to spend $1600 on a spider when you can get just as nice of one from breeder #2 for $400 less and still get the 'extended warrenty' as I like to call it. If both breeders and animals are equal then price will come into play.

Sure, there are people who want only the cheapest and in the end they will probably get burned more times then not but those are also the people who probably don't do their homework and don't care much about where their snake comes from.

High price does not necessarily equal quality is my point.

Another great post! Amen!

[Adam_Wysocki]

Another thing is, MKR was considered a PRO until they cut prices and fell from grace!

That's the difference between being on the "inside" and the "outside" in this business ... no one "in the know" every really considered MKR a "pro" ... they were a couple of guys around a couple of years that threw big money around to build a high end collection fast ... that's a fact ... NERD, PKR, RDR, VPI, etc have been around the business for well over a DECADE ... they have made all the mistakes already and know how to do it right ... without them, we would have no ball biz.

There is no such thing as ZERO risks!

I disagree completely ... build a relationship with a real breeder and he/she will take care of you til the cows come home.

There are a TON of great hobbyists out there that sell great animals at great prices ... but when it comes down to it, they have real jobs Monday thru Friday, families, and other obligations that don't always allow them the time to do what it takes to help all of their customers when they need help ... I know this for a fact because I get so many calls, emails, and PM's from people that have bought from "little guys" that need helps and can't get a hold of them.

But, to assume and post on forums that I have a higher chance of being scammed by Joe or ED than I do by RDR without knowing Joe or ED, doesn't seem right!

Who said anything about Joe or ED? ... Joe Compel is one of the best names in the business and whether ED likes to admit it or not, he's a player for sure.

Maybe in some eyes Joe and Ed are crap because they sell for less!

If you honestly believe that is what I'm saying than you are missing my point completely. If that's the case, I'm very sorry for you ... I've been around this business a very long time ... not as a hobbyist just keeping a couple of snakes, but "IN" this business and have a lot to share about my experiences ... Sometimes people only hear what they want I guess.

I think we all need to respect each other and it seems every time someone posts about a good deal or being happy with a purchase that is below what others feel, it's a becomes mess and lets kill these threads!

It only becomes a mess when someone decides to go on and on trying to prove that they are "right" or "better" ... when someone posts about "deals" I sometimes give my opinion because I've been there done that and know how "deals" can have the potential to go bad ... I'm usually jumped on by people saying that cheaper + quality is just as good or better ... fine, I never dispute that ... I just share my views and respond to criticisms of those views ... why is it that the people that are getting the deals always get their panties wadded up and cry that they're being attacked? or feel the need to justify their view? ... If you really got such a good deal and someone posts that they'd rather pay more from a big breeder why not just laugh at that person ... I mean if the deal was really that good and all?

I buy from big breeders ... that's my preference ... I don't see what is so wrong with that.

-adam

[Adam_Wysocki]

If you think that the high quality snakes are only coming from the big ballers and you want to pay a few hundred dollars extra, thats your choice.

Amen Ed ... couldn't have said it better myself!

-adam

[Adam_Wysocki]

however in defense of some of the smaller breeders they are just as likely to offer 'follow up' service.

Absolutely, there are TONS of great smaller breeders out there!

-adam

[Freakie_frog]

When buying from a hobbiest the thing to remember is that there are going to be some out there that this is just a hobby. They don't care about customers or their rep. They have the fleamarket mindset (this is what I got take it or leave it. And I might not be here next week so get what you can now). Then there are guys like me and Chris and Joe (joepythons) and Jamie and Tim. That know some real players in the biz i.e Adam, Greg, Sean, Joe ect and are on first name, home phone number basis with them. It would kill us to have our customers talk bad about us. I know it would me my animals and customers are the primary thing in my mind, because lets face it a collection of great morphs that'll breed for you, a business does not make.

The main thing is like Adam said some hobbiest and 99.9995% of big breeders take real pride in their craft and for the others it just brings in a little extra vacation money. So be carefull and get to know your breeder prior to buying from them.

[ECLARK]

[QUOTE=Adam_Wysocki]That's the difference between being on the "inside" and the "outside" in this business ... no one "in the know" every really considered MKR a "pro" ... they were a couple of guys around a couple of years that threw big money around to build a high end collection fast ... that's a fact .

EXACTLY, Joe Capone presented himself as a Ball Python expert. and in reality had little or no knowledge of these wonderful little pythons. his precence in the hobby was brief, but disruptive. and seemed to open alot of eyes as to what you dont want from a seller/breeder.

[djslurp1200]

I say examine the breeder regardless of price or name, examine the snake regardless of breeder, and last but not least, examine the deal to make sure it's within your budget and you are paying what you are happy with. Shop around and do your homework regardless of who you are buying from to minimize your risks.

[rabernet]

The main thing is like Adam said some hobbiest and 99.9995% of big breeders take real pride in their craft and for the others it just brings in a little extra vacation money. So be carefull and get to know your breeder prior to buying from them.

Whew! You said in two sentences exactly what I was trying to say in several posts.

Then there are guys like me and Chris and Joe (joepythons) and Jamie and Tim. That know some real players in the biz i.e Adam, Greg, Sean, Joe ect and are on first name, home phone number basis with them. It would kill us to have our customers talk bad about us.

Where's my name? Am I chopped suey?? Oh wait, not breeding this season, but next season - watch out!

[djslurp1200]

Oh wait, not breeding this season, but next season - watch out!

Well until then keep raising up them ball pythons and best of luck next season!

Guys, I want to get off this thread and let this rest as we can go on for weeks. All I am saying is, IMO 99% of the keepers, hobbyist and small breeders out there are good honest well intent people that will support you regardless of what price they sell for!

Whether it's a top quality $1000 Spider or a top quality $700 Spider. If people only bought from those who've been around for 10 years and made $1,000,000+, no one would buy from 99% of the members on these forums who for the most part have great snakes and are honest good caring hobbyist!

I see nothing wrong with those who buy from NERD or RDR and the other Big breeders. I see nothing wrong with those who decide to pay more money than me. I've never read a single thread from someone buying from these Big breeders and getting beat or harassed for possibly paying too much. Yet, if anyone post they bought from breeder "B" for less $$$...there is hell to pay from those who want to dictate price!

That's all I'm saying...

[elevatethis]

My thing is this: why do certain people feel the need to broadcast details of private deals publically on forums or through other channels? I understand the excitement of getting a new snake, but does it really make you 'feel' any better to broadcast private details on your computer to a bunch of strangers, most of which you will never meet?

If a breeder, big or small, gave me a great deal for whatever reason...I would not advertise publically out of consideration for that breeder and their future business. That 'great deal' can quickly become the new starting point for negotiations with future customers, basically taking money right out of their pocket if they happen to have a customer willing to pay more.