I think my snake loves me

[Mindibun]

I'm so tired of seeing this thread. Really. But I guess I don't mind it because it'll always be something people have to argue over.

I did want to comment on something Melissa said: "Do some humans anthropomorphize, while others disallow emotional capabilities that animals ARE capable of?"

This is a good point. People always want to point the finger at those who believe snakes have emotional capacities and say, "You're just anthropomorphizing. It's silly to put human capabilities onto animals. You're too sensitive" etc. But what about turning it around? These same people seem completely unwilling to admit that animals (or in this case snakes) may have any emotion at all. They consistently return to the argument of anthropomorphization. Which would also lead me to believe that they are, "disallow[ing] emotional capabilities that animals ARE capable of".

Think about the meat market - animals that are bred and produced specifically for meat consumption. Look at any of PETA's videos and you'll see how bad some of the conditions can be for these animals. If the persons responsible for caring for these animals and transporting them, etc. believed they were capable of feeling emotion, would they really be able to treat them in this manner? And these aren't reptiles; these are cows and pigs - animals that have been scientifically proven to have a reasonable amount of intelligence. (No, I don't have any links to sites that back this up. Go ahead and start arguing that all of this is moot now. ) But really, if animals could talk we'd all be vegetarians. It seems some people only believe an animal is capable of intelligence and emotion if it can talk - which rules out just about everything.

I completely agree that there are those who anthropomorphize to an extreme. But there are also those unwilling to accept any humanoid capabilities from animals altogether.

Not sure if I added to the "my snake does/does not love me" argument, but I just wanted to throw that out there. Good point, Melissa.

And for the record - I do believe my snakes recognize me as their handler and prefer to be in my hands than the hands of others. I don't necessarily believe that qualifies as "love" but there is some level of comfort and that's gotta count for something, right?

[Ophiuchus]

I just don't like the term "love" used with reptiles. To me, love means "unconditional devotion and affection." I'll admit snakes tolerate human interaction, and maybe some actually do enjoy being handled. But I'm sorry, but I just don't believe any reptile shows unconditional love to its owner. A dog or a horse? Probably. A cat or a macaw? Perhaps. Fish and herps? Just don't think so.

[MelissaFlipski]

Thank you, Mindibun!

Ophiucus, there are so many more kinds of love than unconditional among humans. While most dogs may love unconditionally, very few humans truly do. So does that make dogs more sophisticated b/c they are less petty?

Perhaps there is some other word for how reptiles can feel about their keepers. At the same time, maybe the animal hierarchy is upside down. Should humans be on the bottom since we still enslave others (both human and not), frequently have our priorities all messed up (possessions before love and health), and all too often put conditions on our love??

I know we'll never agree on this particular issue. But at least we agree that SNAKES ROCK!!!

[Ophiuchus]

Ophiucus, there are so many more kinds of love than unconditional among humans. While most dogs may love unconditionally, very few humans truly do. So does that make dogs more sophisticated b/c they are less petty?

Yeah, I can understand that. I mean, I don't "love" pizza in the same way I love my girlfriend. But perhaps thats my point; our society throws that word around so non-chalantly and loosely that few people really know how to define it. I mean, how many times you do actually say the word and really mean it? That, I think, is what I'm getting at.

We humans are so good at tossing the word around, so we so easily want to use it for describing how our pets see us. So yeah, I guess "love" means different things to different people in different situations. But in its purest definition, I doubt its the most accurate term to describe how a bearded dragon or ball python feels about its owner.

[Jenn]

Seems to me that before we can answer the question whether snakes can love or not we need to define the word love. Webster' Dictionary describes love as "an intense affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties". (Or a score of zero in tennis).

I think it's important to remember that love is a concept only farmiliar to humans. We feel intense affection for others but that feeling is only in our heads. When we die so does our love. If a human mind is not thinking about love then the love does not exist. Love is only a concept in our heads. Love (in itself) is not a tangable thing. It's a concept. The question remains... Are snakes capable of intense affection for another out of kinship or personal ties? Practicing no, capable maybe!!!

[MelissaFlipski]

Yeah, I can understand that. I mean, I don't "love" pizza in the same way I love my girlfriend. But perhaps thats my point; our society throws that word around so non-chalantly and loosely that few people really know how to define it. I mean, how many times you do actually say the word and really mean it? That, I think, is what I'm getting at.

We humans are so good at tossing the word around, so we so easily want to use it for describing how our pets see us. So yeah, I guess "love" means different things to different people in different situations. But in its purest definition, I doubt its the most accurate term to describe how a bearded dragon or ball python feels about its owner.

What I meant was REAL love, just different kinds. For example, how I love my husband is different from how I love my kids, how I love my mom, how I love my friends. How I love my dog is even different from how I love my snakes. Also, very few REAL loves are unconditional. That is a very high standard not often met.

[Oroborous]

I completely agree that there are those who anthropomorphize to an extreme. But there are also those unwilling to accept any humanoid capabilities from animals altogether.

And for the record - I do believe my snakes recognize me as their handler and prefer to be in my hands than the hands of others. I don't necessarily believe that qualifies as "love" but there is some level of comfort and that's gotta count for something, right?

I'm sure this thread is getting pretty old, but I've seen this issue raised a couple times and couldn't resist putting in my 2 sence. I agree as well that people anthropomorphize too often and not many things bug me more. No other animal is like us humans, and that's why I love em all so much, especially reptiles!
I also believe my snake recognizes me and prefers me to other handlers, simply because we've created a trusting relationship and she feels more secure in my hands as opposed to an unfamiliar smelling and feeling stranger. I believe if you do not fear the snake it will not fear you(well, at least in many cases). Basically, snakes didn't survive millions of years by being emotional animals, they survived based on their instincts, but that doesn't make them mindless, stupid animals.

[littleindiangirl]

Do you really believe your dog loves you unconditionally? I know many people say that jumping around when you get home is a sign of love, wagging their tail, barking for you, excited to see you is all love... but I have to heartedly disagree. I tend to side with Cesar Milan on the mindset of dogs.

(Not an exact quote, rather an idea)
Dogs don't think about how you feel, or why your feelings are hurt when they do a certain action, they know that they can act aggressive/mopey, and get the desired result from the human. They are conditioning you.

I still have to say that animals rely specifically on learning behaviors and instincts. I don't believe they love, but their degree of security to the point of pleasure and affection is enough to make people believe that they are "loving" us as we love them.

[Spaniard]

Do you really believe your dog loves you unconditionally? I know many people say that jumping around when you get home is a sign of love, wagging their tail, barking for you, excited to see you is all love... but I have to heartedly disagree. I tend to side with Cesar Milan on the mindset of dogs.

(Not an exact quote, rather an idea)
Dogs don't think about how you feel, or why your feelings are hurt when they do a certain action, they know that they can act aggressive/mopey, and get the desired result from the human. They are conditioning you.

I still have to say that animals rely specifically on learning behaviors and instincts. I don't believe they love, but their degree of security to the point of pleasure and affection is enough to make people believe that they are "loving" us as we love them.

Cesar Milan is great; I wish I could be the East Coast Dog Whisperer

[Windridge Kennels]

I think all beings, including humans, dogs (and I adore dogs...) and snakes are selfish creatures who like others based on what they can get from them- for humans, that very well can be affection, understanding, companionship, validation, enjoyment of similar interests, sex, or anything else. Would you be best friends with your best friend if he or she never spoke to you, never made you laugh, have fun, or feel good? I'm not saying humans are totally incapable of selfless devotion, but for the most part, I think everything any living creature does is motivated in SOME level by self reward. And that's OKAY! For dogs it can be food, play time, walks, ear scratches... for snakes it can be body heat. Love is hard to define, and my view of it is fairly cynical. I know I "love" my snakes because they give me joy. I find them beautiful to look at, delightful to handle, fascinating to share life with, and fun to take out and about and share with others who may previously have feared them. I am excited at the thought of breeding them, and I truly care about them as individual beings with unique personalities. I never want so many that I can't see them that way, and their welfare will always mean more to me than anything they can produce. Do they love me? Surely not by traditional definition! However, I still voted yes, because I feel like they are my companions, and I do NOT believe that snakes are complete machines, incapable of any type of feeling.