I know against some peoples wishes my minds made up

[frankykeno]

have you posted the pics of your set up on ks and asked the monitor people there what they thought.

i am done argewing with a 13 year old about this. have fun at school!

trey best of luck. do your own reading get your own opinions.

Just a comment here about being judgemental. Fish, it's about perspective, quite honestly to me at my age...you're a kid too. The school comment wasn't needed and Marshall was not arguing only stating that he doesn't enjoy those teen comments and that is after all his right to say and hardly argumentative. Why would you send a member in good standing here to another forum?

[Trey]

Wow, This topic took off! Well I really appriciate everyone's opinion and i'll be sure to post some pics of my lizard. As far as my age i'm 25 to whomever asked and thanks again. Trey

[Pork Chops N' Corn Bread]

lol, I guess since this topic is about age now, I could throw mine into the mix too.
I'm 15. Many people have Judged me because of my age. It really pisses me off but you have to try not to let it make you mad. I don't see myself dumping off my animals anytime. I would do anything for my animals to prevent me from getting rid of them.

[Razaiel]

Oh guys - Jake and Marshall - I really hope I haven't upset either of you with my comments about my daughter - I've "known" both of you two for a while now here and on the other monitor forums and know you are both passionate about your critters.

[mr~python]

im not mad at all. i know exactly what you're talking about, but fish's ridiculous comment of how he's "not gonna argue with a 13 year old" is what gets me mad. he's not going to debate with me because im 13? what is that? i take that comment as, "im not a big enough man to admit that an intelligent 13 year old has made a educated counterpoint for every point that ive made." then he resorts to if the people on kingsnake think my enclosure is good, which is kinda ridiculous. it doesnt matter what the enclosure looks like, its the monitor and how he reacts to the enclosure.

i think anyone who keeps reptiles will agree with me on this, and that is that if the animal is healthy and stress free then there is nothing wrong with the enclosure its being kept in, and the enclosure is working fine and serving its purpose. to keep a healthy animal. simple as that.

one thing i did not make a counterpoint too was about the water bowl thing. water monitors spend all of there time either in or near the water. they use it to thermoregulate, to hunt, for security, etc. so why would you deprive it of something that comes natural to it? i never said it has to be big enough to swim in, id like to point that out, but i did say it needs to be big enough for the monitor to submerge itself. ive never kept a water, but i think its pretty ridiculous that you would only give it a water bowl to drink out of. its kinda like depriving a tree monitor of climbing branches or foliage, or a burrowing monitor of burrowable dirt, IMO.

[fish21]

the only reason i mentioned http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1138123,1138123
was because your knowledg of monitor cages was questioned. that is all i was saying.

the only reason i asked how old he was because you at 13 have no idea where you will be in 4-5 years. work/ college/ millitary. so you cant possiably know how you will take care of you 8 ft 150 lbs monitor. that is why i asked.

have a great day.
matt fisher

[mr~python]

yes, it was, but i honestly think those kims dont like to be so close. my guess would be that they like that spot so much for a reason. if its not temperature then possibly its that that spot makes them feel more secure or is further away from something they would consider a predator. i know someone who's 3 ackies have 2 spots to bask but they only use one because its further from the glass and it has some fake grass thats covering it. now, i that was in the wild then i would say that was social but its not. it's in an enclosed space with 2 basking spots. one of which they may find more suitable then the other.

the subject of whether monitors are social or not is very highly debated. espescially on kingsnake. the biologists that study them in the wild and have been for years say they are not but Frank Retes says they are. Frank has spent some time studying them in the wild but not near as much as biologists (or "academics" thats what he calls them). i think when it comes to wild monitors Frank isnt reall the person to listen to, i think the biologists are. when it comes to captive monitors though, Frank is the one to listen to. he has bred more monitors then anybody else but that still doesnt mean he knows about them and their wild behaviours. the problem is a lot of people choose sides. i think if we listened to Franks point of views on captives and the biologists point of view on wild monitors is where we'd get the most useful information.

thats my 2 cents

[fish21]

i just took a resent pic of my water. you can see a big difference between his old pics and this. much plumper and gotten about 3inches bigger.

[mr~python]

he's lookin good

[fish21]

thanks. i havnt even tried to handle him yet am relly waiting till he is good and started. i will start handling in aout two months or so.
matt fisher