Update on Fluffy's clutch + pics

[Ken]

Are we down to a week now? Woo Hoo!!!!

[Sapphire7]

Congrats on the eggs! If I was to breed I would say "Screw technology, we have mother nature on our hands now!" I hope all the babies hatch out. And if I were to breed I'd do Maternal. Dont get discouraged if they dont hatch at day 60, sometimes with Maternal incubation it takes a bit longer and sometimes can go up to 100days!!! But thats with bad humidity and warmth. And obviously you seem to have good heating and humidity going on. Im proud you didnt just take the eggs from your girl because every one says " Why are you doing it that way, why not incubate with your incubator" But you did what you wanted to do, and its your choice. And look now, babies in a week!!!

[jglass38]

Congrats on the eggs! If I was to breed I would say "Screw technology, we have mother nature on our hands now!" I hope all the babies hatch out. And if I were to breed I'd do Maternal. Dont get discouraged if they dont hatch at day 60, sometimes with Maternal incubation it takes a bit longer and sometimes can go up to 100days!!! But thats with bad humidity and warmth. And obviously you seem to have good heating and humidity going on. Im proud you didnt just take the eggs from your girl because every one says " Why are you doing it that way, why not incubate with your incubator" But you did what you wanted to do, and its your choice. And look now, babies in a week!!!

I'll just say, let's hope you don't decide to breed. Its rather obvious that you don't have the animal's best interest at heart. Thanks for bringing nothing to the table though!

[Sapphire7]

I'll just say, let's hope you don't decide to breed. Its rather obvious that you don't have the animal's best interest at heart. Thanks for bringing nothing to the table though!

What? Ofcourse I have the animal in mind, thats why I'd actually let the female incubate. Im would not be no mad animal breeder who only breeds so I could have babies and a profit. The animal is the first thing in my mind if I'd ever consider breeding. I would let the female decide when she is ready never do any of this cooling down for breeding reasons. I would never breed just to breed and take away eggs after a long stressful period for the gravid female, then take eggs away? Not how I think. I think its cruel to take something from a female. Especailly babies or eggs. I'd wait untill babies are out of the eggs then seperate them. Because when the female actually decides she wants to mate, she is probably thinking of eggs and her tiome incubating them. How could you say I dont have the animals best interest in my heart? Taking eggs away from the female who just had a long time having eggs inside her isnt very "animals best interest for her" so how I see it. But this is just my 2 cents and being more of an naturalist I'll have to stay with my opinion. Thank you.

[jglass38]

What? Ofcourse I have the animal in mind, thats why I'd actually let the female incubate. Im would not be no mad animal breeder who only breeds so I could have babies and a profit. The animal is the first thing in my mind if I'd ever consider breeding. I would let the female decide when she is ready never do any of this cooling down for breeding reasons. I would never breed just to breed and take away eggs after a long stressful period for the gravid female, then take eggs away? Not how I think. I think its cruel to take something from a female. Especailly babies or eggs. I'd wait untill babies are out of the eggs then seperate them. Because when the female actually decides she wants to mate, she is probably thinking of eggs and her tiome incubating them. How could you say I dont have the animals best interest in my heart? Taking eggs away from the female who just had a long time having eggs inside her isnt very "animals best interest for her" so how I see it. But this is just my 2 cents and being more of an naturalist I'll have to stay with my opinion. Thank you.

You are doing what is called anthopomorphizing. The definition is to attribute human form or feelings to something non human. Snakes breed to procreate as instinct tells them to. They don't look forward to mating, enjoy the birthing process or have whimsical rememberances of their past offspring. So that said, why wouldn't you do what is right and not subject your snake to two extra months of non feeding and 24/7 stress of maternally incubating eggs?

[Sapphire7]

Well maybe because I believe animals have feelings and all of that. And humans dont believe things past what they can see or feel. But I will not argue about that. I just believe nature should take its course and THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! And jsut so you know, all females who have babies or are pregnant do have a lot of stess and a lot more... we cant just take our babies out of us and say " Well Im stressed, time for the test tube"

[JLC]

So that said, why wouldn't you do what is right and not subject your snake to two extra months of non feeding and 24/7 stress of maternally incubating eggs?

Why is your way "right" and her way "wrong?" (And I could ask her the same question.) BP's have been maternally incubating for as long as there have been BP's...and there are a LOT of BP's out there in the wild...so it can't exactly be "wrong" for the snake.

Personally, I would choose to take the eggs and allow the female a faster recovery. But that doesn't mean maternal incubation is wrong. This is very similar to the live vs. f/t debate, I think. The snakes can thrive both ways...so why does it matter if someone else chooses to do it differeintly than you do?

[jglass38]

Well maybe because I believe animals have feelings and all of that. And humans dont believe things past what they can see or feel. But I will not argue about that. I just believe nature should take its course and THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

What you believe in is clearly fairy tales and not nature. Rock on!

[cassandra]

Well maybe because I believe animals have feelings and all of that. And humans dont believe things past what they can see or feel.

Wow.

[Rapture]

I realize there are probably no large-scale breeders that practice maternal incubation with their BP's. I just hope that anyone posting on this thread would read it in its entirety, including the links I posted that include theories backed with hard evidence as to why maternal incubation is actually beneficial to the neonates compared to artificial incubation, and that it also does not seem to cause much stress for the female incubating. This data was taken from animals in captivity. I posted the links to these lab reports in this thread when a member requested articles about maternal incubation.

So, just please read everything in attempts to understand why I am doing what I am doing before forming the opinion that I do not care about the health of my animals or that I am not doing what is right for them.

(Jamie, this is not directed at your above post.)