Just a little info on Pitbulls

[BlacknMexicano]

PITS ARE BAD DOGS. But thats his opinion and I respect that.


BAD DOGS FOR BEING THE MOST LOYAL.
BAD DOGS FOR BEING THE MOST LOVABLE.
BAD DOGS FOR BEING ABLE TO HAVE A HIGH PAIN TOLERANCE WHEN YOUR KID PULLS ON THEIR EARS AND NORMALY ANY OTHER DOG WOULD BITE THE KID FOR BEING TO ROUGH.
BAD DOGS FOR BEING THE BEST BREED IN THE WORLD.

I could go on since I'm drunk but I wont, so let me just say I know people who work as vets and they can tell you they don't trust any other dog that comes in for fear of knowing that the other dogs snap much more than any of the pits do.

This is a great topic and its my first post so congrates to you who came up with this thread it is much easier to talk about Pits compared to BPs this is one thing I know. There are a lot of points that I can hit on but it would take up more of your time and only the Pit owners or people who have witnessed first hand of how good a Pit can be coming from a good home know how TRUSTING this breed is. I've been raised around Pits my whole life and it is the only DOG I WILL EVER TRUST...

PUNISH THE DEED NOT THE BREED.

Say it with me: PUNISH THE DEED NOT THE BREED......

[frankykeno]

What is being punished in Toledo are people like me and the family of that 18 month old who are getting to the point of being afraid to walk the city streets or go to public parks because of the pitbull issues in this city. These are not pit crosses or dogs that just happen to look like pits, these are pits. Most that end up in family homes here are puppies of fighting pits, they keep the biggest pup for pit fighting and sell off the other pups as pets. It's not about the breed here or in Detroit, it's about a societal problem but unfortunately this breed is going to suffer and so are those like me who don't feel safe anymore.

It's not a once in awhile thing here, it's every week. Dog Control should do more, well we had a dog control officer attacked by yet another family pet pit the other week. They have to put these pits down and it's so sad for the dog to end up like that.

It's all fine and well to say don't blame the breed. I would have said the same before I moved to Toledo. Now I'm wondering if my son and I are safe to walk our pup and considering whether mace will drive a pit back. What do you say to parents like the ones here that were walking their toddler innocently down a city sidewalk and had to drag her out of the jaws of a pit. "Don't blame the breed"....sorry folks but that is likely not going to cut it for them.

Some say make it expensive to own a pit here in Toledo. That will hardly work when very few of them have city licences anyway and a fair number have never seen a vet. Apparently we have a law in Toledo you can only own 1 pit...it's basically ignored from what I've seen and very difficult to enforce (it's not my dog, it wandered in here, it's my brother/cousin/etc dog I'm just dogsitting, so forth and so on).

I hate to see breed specific laws, they are so unfair but I don't see what else Toledo can do about this problem.

[daaangconcepts]

frankykeno, you bring up very valuable points. Although I am completly AGAINST Breed Specific Laws, I understand your concerns. But here are some reasons why BSL isn't the best answer:

1. Criminals habitually break laws, so having an "illegal breed" may indeed be attractive to them and might make them want to breed and sell more "illegal dogs". If their dog is confiscated and killed, they really don't care. They will just get another one because breed bans punish the dog, not the owner.

2. Law abiding responsible owners, whose dogs love people and have never done anything wrong, can see their homes invaded, often without a search warrant, and their beloved family members dragged away (in front of their children) to be killed. Not because the dogs are unstable or mean, but simply because of their breed.

3. The owners of truly dangerous dogs (of any breed) escape punishment because their breed is not targeted by legislation and therefor is believed "safe".

The better options is:

Strict laws to control aggressive dogs of any breed or mix. Known as generic vicious dog laws, they put restrictions on the ownership of dogs that pose a danger to people, restrictions such as confinement in locked, escape-proof kennels while outdoors on the owner's property; muzzles when the dog is off the property; and purchase of a liability insurance policy.

Here is a link to what we have in place in VA. It was made to strenghten the laws against the dog owners of dangerous or vicious dogs. It also describes what they mean by dangerous and vicious

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL...VAStateLaw.pdf

[frankykeno]

Well I agree with you that breed specific laws will hurt some people I'm sorry but I can't agree. I read that document. The determination of vicious and dangerous can only come after the incident has occurred....after an innocent pet is dead, a child disfigured, etc. The evidence I'm sorry to say in my community is that this breed, bred in this manner, here in Toledo is a loaded gun that doesn't even need a reason to fire. Google pitbull attacks in Toledo OH and then tell me you'd feel safe in this community walking your puppy and your 5 year old.

I don't and I've never in my life been afraid of a specific breed nor supported breed specific laws. I cannot though simply play the discussion game when I know it's a reality here....week in and week out...that pitbull attacks happen. I've lived in this neighbourhood less than 2 months and had two issues already with near misses with pits. What would I have said to my child if that pit had killed his puppy in front of his eyes. The only and I mean only reason that pit didn't grab Gunnar was because the owner muscled it away, literally flipping that snarling, enraged and very big pit over and dragging it off....while it still continued to try to attack a puppy. That dog wasn't going to listen to it's owner and had that man not been a pretty big guy I'd have a dead puppy and a traumatized child.

You can say, oh that's a single incident...that does not count the loose pits in yards when I have to pull Mikey back from the sidewalk as the snarling charge at the fence happens. The pits that fling themselves at the end of their chains when all we are doing is walking down a sidewalk near their property...a public sidewalk. This is not funny people and it is not nice to be scared to walk in broad daylight with your child and your puppy on it's leash, properly licensed and taught to not be aggressive.

So no - I don't want to wait for that to happen to have that dog of that breed, bred from fighting stock, deemed vicious and dangerous. The fact is these people may well move to another breed or get a pit anyways but with stricter laws come stricter penalities and if it cuts down on just one or two attacks here in Toledo then I'm sorry to say but for the first time in my life....I'll support BSL.

[frankykeno]

One thing you need to be aware of is this. It's not the true fighting pits that are at issue. Those poor sad things are mostly kept locked away as their scars give Dog Control evidence of fighting. It's the pups from the fighting litters, sold as pets, that are causing most of the incidents in Toledo. These "pets" that are not pets are sold to people that are not criminals. I feel bad for them, for the dogs and for this community.

[daaangconcepts]

I understand I will not be able to change the way you feel towards them. However I truely don't think BSL is the solution. You can't blame a whole breed for the actions of some.

If the familys (that bought the puppies from dog fighting lines) could be educated by their local government on these so call "backyard breeders." They would have been able to make a better decision on which animal the chose for their family pet. I also feel sorry for the families that purchased these animals not knowing what they were getting into. Now its up to the owners. They need to be held responsible for the dog they choose. If they are responsible they could have the dog enrolled in disobedience classes. Or have its temperment tested. If the dog proves to be dangerous, they would have no choice but to CORRECT that situation. If a dog is truely dangerous/vicious it should be euthanized.

It's just like wanting to purchase a pet snake. You need to do your homework and research the animal you want to get. When we were looking for our dogs bloodline and temperment of the parents were are main concern. We actually saw the parents, we have the bloodline papers. These animals may cost more, but you truely get what you pay for!

[frankykeno]

Lovely concepts...please google pitbull attacks Toledo OH. Tigerlily just did and was sickened by what she read. I'm all for education and fairness. I'm not however all for sitting back and watching children mauled while we educate. This is about owning a dog....a privilege....children walking their own city streets safe from attack by pitbulls...a right.

You aren't going to change my mind because I had to change my own mind when I moved here. I used to be the first one to fight BSL, I considered buying a pitbull puppy before we got our current puppy, I had to change my mind because all my ideals do NOT match up with the situation in the city I live in. This is an area specific issue as much as a breed specific issue. In the city I live in (which is all I've ever commented on in this thread) pitbulls are a real and present danger that is overwhelming the resources of the Lucas County Dog Warden.

[daaangconcepts]

I agree children and families have the right to feel safe and secure in there own home and neighborhoods. Maybe your town is full of non-responsible pitbull owners and they only way for your city to feel safe is to introuduce BSL. If that helps the problem there, and is the only solution then so be it.

If BSL ever were to become an issue in my county I would fight it, (but my county doesn't have a problem with pitbulls) We've had a couple attacks arise here and there, but these attacks are not always by pitbulls. Just this week a 5yr was mauled outside his home by a german sheppard and lab. But we have very few occurances of attacks.

[brainman1000]

I understand I will not be able to change the way you feel towards them. However I truely don't think BSL is the solution. You can't blame a whole breed for the actions of some.

If the familys (that bought the puppies from dog fighting lines) could be educated by their local government on these so call "backyard breeders." They would have been able to make a better decision on which animal the chose for their family pet. I also feel sorry for the families that purchased these animals not knowing what they were getting into. Now its up to the owners. They need to be held responsible for the dog they choose. If they are responsible they could have the dog enrolled in disobedience classes. Or have its temperment tested. If the dog proves to be dangerous, they would have no choice but to CORRECT that situation. If a dog is truely dangerous/vicious it should be euthanized.

It's just like wanting to purchase a pet snake. You need to do your homework and research the animal you want to get. When we were looking for our dogs bloodline and temperment of the parents were are main concern. We actually saw the parents, we have the bloodline papers. These animals may cost more, but you truely get what you pay for!

This is exactly right. The key is education for the owners. The pups may be bred from fighting stock, but that doesn't mean that the pups will have the same fighting mentality as their parents. That mentality is something that has to be taught.

When I had my pit I took her to dog parks several times a week so that she could socialize with other dogs and people for the sole purpose of teaching her how to interact with other dogs and people.

The problem with pits is the same reason they are used in pit fighting: when they do attack they are vicious and relentless. It is an unfortunate trait that this breed has naturally, and the only way to overcome this is through proper training.

I wonder how many of those pit owners in Toledo have taken their dog to obedience training. I think it would be safe to say that none of them have. You may have a pit problem in your neighborhood, but it is not an issue of too many pits in the neighborhood, it is too many owners not training their dogs properly.

As for BSL's, I think that would be as effective as prohibition in the 20's.

[tigerlily]

I agree that responsible owners would make this issue mute, but apparently these owners just aren't. It also sounds like there is a large population of animals that have NOT been socialized properly. Socialization is important for any breed, but in the case of some it can have disastrous results. What type of solution is viable for adult animals that have no social skills? Those types of things usually need to be ingrained early on, and there seems to be a large number of animals involved. I've never heard of pits being such a problem in any of the areas I've lived in, and I personally love the breed. I would not be willing though, to live in such circumstances. My children deserve better than that.