Questions for the General Public

[elevatethis]

I'm with Mendel on this one...

Teaching theology or even encouraging it in a science class completely undermines the legitimacy of the scientific fact that you are supposed to be teaching the class.

[xdeus]

There seems to be more information that I've read that refutes evolution, however; I have "faith" in my collegues to do what's right and find real, hard evidence. It seems that these continual claims concerning evolution prove false.

Would you please point me to any unbiased information that refutes evolution? By unbiased I mean anything based on fact that isn't associated with a religious based organization. And exactly who or how did they prove evolution false?

[elevatethis]

And exactly who or how did they prove evolution false?

Because the bible said the earth was created in however many days.

I had a heated conversation with a girl who was convinced that dinosaur bones were fake and placed on earth by the devil in order to lure non-believers to hell. WOW!

I guess that would just ruin a trip to the Museum of Natural History, now wouldn't it!

[iceman25]

Hey folks glad to see that things are being kept pretty civil so far given the nature of the thread. My hats off to you! I hope it continues to remain in such fashion and hopefully no one will have to bring out the frozen Salmon.

[MedusasOwl]

I hope this isn't too far off the point of the question here, but I'd say the best thing to do for all parties for a teacher of any subject is to teach kids to research. How to find information. Not guide them towards what kind of information to find so much as learn how to find out what they want to know. Does that make sense? Teach them how to learn.

It just seems to me like teaching kids to memorize dates and facts and names isn't really as useful as teaching them how to find dates and facts and names etc and so on. It's a skill they can use for anything. Religion, science, you name it. Nudge them to think rather than what to think about. Encourage them to ask questions and find answers, and compare notes. They'll find where they're goin on their own, they just need the skills to do it. Like you said, available information is changing all the time. Teach them how to keep up with it.

Stick with the science, not straying into religious topics as I'm a strong believer in separation of Church and State, but keep in mind that these are skills that they can use to find the spiritual path that's right for them, look up health information, find out how to learn about an animal before getting one, study up on politics... Anything! Focus on teaching them how to learn and research will be doing them a huge favor in the longrun on any subject. I certainly wish I'd learned these skills sooner!

Just my .

[Wild Bill]

I just want my students to know that there are other beliefs/ideals/"theories." I won't teach them in school. I simply want to open the window for free learning.

Once again, that is not your responsibility with OTHER PEOPLES children. We as parents still have rights.

[Jeanne]

I read this whole thread and will comment on this first statement. First there is a reason church, religion and the classroom are being kept seperate. Not everyone holds your values and religious beliefs and having them explore "alternatives" for school work is a violation of their parents trust in you. You as a teacher are expected to stick to approved teaching materials. It is the PARENTS choice to teach their child anything beyond the classroom curriculum. You will live a very short life as a teacher if you plan on violating that trust. School is not the place to use your class as a captive audience to "push" other religions.

I quoted Bill because he said it best, and I agree with Bill's look on this.

I am a teacher, of special ed. students, usually I work in behavior ed. in fact... but let me say this.. from my experience, you are not paid to teach other ppls kids stuff that is NOT in the text books, and most schools/employers that would hire a teacher are not going to let you teach outside of the text books, in fact, if you do, and a student and/or parent gets upset about a teacher teaching thier own religious beliefs/ideas, not having anything to do with class text...you get wrote up and canned if you do it enough, because you are then infringing on others rights and beliefs; opening up the school for possible lawsuit. Bottom line, stick to the school text books if you want to make it as a teacher in normal public schools. Using extra credit to get them to learn/research religious ideas is also infringing on parents/students own beliefs. Watch what you are doing if you plan on remaining a teacher for long. If you would like to include religious under tone in your education to students, do it in a place that caters to that...a private school usually funded or run by a religious group. That is where it is OK, cause obviously, they are in such a school and thats what thier parents want..however, they also will not allow you to teach stuff not within thier text on religion.

As a parent, if a teacher did as you are suggesting you might do, would really really tick me off, so much so that I would go to the school superintendant and complain, and even more so, that I would confront you and give you an ear full..in fact, I have gone to the superintendant about this same type of thing just this past year. My daughters teacher was suppose to be teaching science, not religion in class. SO was my daughters wood shop teacher, he was suppose to be teaching wood shop...not christianity. Know what happened? They are no longer employees for this coming school year, wanna know why... cause I was not the only parent ticked that thier child was being taught religious propaganda while attending a public school, who is not in charge of her religious "training", they are only responsible for providing a basic education.... if I wanted my child to learn about religion, I certainly would have pulled the big cash amount out of my arse and paid it to the local catholic private school... furthermore, I have even complained to the school regarding songs chosen by a choir teacher, which all were indeed religious type songs... not good either. I am one of those that yell for separation of church, religion and classroom... why? Because it is not a teachers business to teach my children anything to do with religion..period..it is that simple.

[Melicious]

I'll start out slow and work my way up/down. *I just woke up, so it'll be a few posts before I answer everyone.

Because the bible said the earth was created in however many days.

I had a heated conversation with a girl who was convinced that dinosaur bones were fake and placed on earth by the devil in order to lure non-believers to hell. WOW!

I guess that would just ruin a trip to the Museum of Natural History, now wouldn't it!

Perhaps you're only discussing this one girl, but personally speaking, I'm not Christian. I don't believe in the Bible. I see it as a religious text book to be taken with a grain of salt as I do text books in science class. ^_^

Dinosaur bones are real and fossils are real. I lived in Texas for Seventeen-and-a-half years and everyday I brought home a new bucket of fossils. Oh! And I think the devil is a fabrication of the Christian religion to give solidarity to the idea of evil. Evil exists, but there need not be a devil to influence it. Humans are already doing well without a devil. ^_^

Medusa probably hit closest to home. I don't envision myself standing at my "pulpit" with my hands raised high screaming at my students, "Come to God, children! This mockery of Christ will send you to hell!" I simply want to encourage their own research. Whether they agree with/disagree with/aren't sure about, evolution is their own deal. I would like them to understand that it's okay to look at other options, further understand evolution, and if they stumble upon a creationist story and that fits dearer to their heart, then so be it.

I just find that if I encourage them to look at other options, not necessarily point them in the right direction, they might learn a little better. I can, however; envision myself standing in front of my class(not behind a podium), and stating very simply: Evolution is the accepted norm for our coming into exist, however; evolution isn't completely tried and true, and I encourage you to look at other scientific and otherwise "theories." (Oh, and yes, I love my quote hand movements)! I encourage you all to look through LexusNexus, science journals; scholarly sources are your best bet. Oh, and Matt, you can take Ody out. (Oh yes! I will have snakes in my classroom).

So...I don't want to teach them religion. I don't want to teach them to be religious. I don't even want to mention the word God. I simply want to let them know that there are other options out there, whether scientific or otherwise. ^_^ I want to encourage that they learn outside of the classroom. That's all. Whether it's evolution or the stem cell research going on.

[Melicious]

I quoted Bill because he said it best, and I agree with Bill's look on this.

I am a teacher, of special ed. students, usually I work in behavior ed. in fact... but let me say this.. from my experience, you are not paid to teach other ppls kids stuff that is NOT in the text books, and most schools/employers that would hire a teacher are not going to let you teach outside of the text books, in fact, if you do, and a student and/or parent gets upset about a teacher teaching thier own religious beliefs/ideas, not having anything to do with class text...you get wrote up and canned if you do it enough, because you are then infringing on others rights and beliefs; opening up the school for possible lawsuit. Bottom line, stick to the school text books if you want to make it as a teacher in normal public schools. Using extra credit to get them to learn/research religious ideas is also infringing on parents/students own beliefs. Watch what you are doing if you plan on remaining a teacher for long. If you would like to include religious under tone in your education to students, do it in a place that caters to that...a private school usually funded or run by a religious group. That is where it is OK, cause obviously, they are in such a school and thats what thier parents want..however, they also will not allow you to teach stuff not within thier text on religion.

As a parent, if a teacher did as you are suggesting you might do, would really really tick me off, so much so that I would go to the school superintendant and complain, and even more so, that I would confront you and give you an ear full..in fact, I have gone to the superintendant about this same type of thing just this past year. My daughters teacher was suppose to be teaching science, not religion in class. SO was my daughters wood shop teacher, he was suppose to be teaching wood shop...not christianity. Know what happened? They are no longer employees for this coming school year, wanna know why... cause I was not the only parent ticked that thier child was being taught religious propaganda while attending a public school, who is not in charge of her religious "training", they are only responsible for providing a basic education.... if I wanted my child to learn about religion, I certainly would have pulled the big cash amount out of my arse and paid it to the local catholic private school... furthermore, I have even complained to the school regarding songs chosen by a choir teacher, which all were indeed religious type songs... not good either. I am one of those that yell for separation of church, religion and classroom... why? Because it is not a teachers business to teach my children anything to do with religion..period..it is that simple.

And Jeanne, you're one of those parents that would probably have me hung. ^_^ Not because I was bashing Bible or Quran, or any other religious text down your child's throat, but because I would encourage your child to look behind the text book and look at other options.

By the way: I was one of those choir students that sang those religious songs. I didn't agree with them, I didn't like their message, but I adored my choir director and I loved the arrangements. We prayed before every concert and every event and no one ever complained. For seven years I prayed, and for seven years I loved choir more and more. My school conducts/ed Baccaloriate in the auditorium, we pray at football games and other sporting events.

***Minor setback in my post. Cable guy's here! I'll finish this asap.

[Wild Bill]

I'll start out slow and work my way up/down. *I just woke up, so it'll be a few posts before I answer everyone.



Perhaps you're only discussing this one girl, but personally speaking, I'm not Christian. I don't believe in the Bible. I see it as a religious text book to be taken with a grain of salt as I do text books in science class. ^_^

Dinosaur bones are real and fossils are real. I lived in Texas for Seventeen-and-a-half years and everyday I brought home a new bucket of fossils. Oh! And I think the devil is a fabrication of the Christian religion to give solidarity to the idea of evil. Evil exists, but there need not be a devil to influence it. Humans are already doing well without a devil. ^_^

Medusa probably hit closest to home. I don't envision myself standing at my "pulpit" with my hands raised high screaming at my students, "Come to God, children! This mockery of Christ will send you to hell!" I simply want to encourage their own research. Whether they agree with/disagree with/aren't sure about, evolution is their own deal. I would like them to understand that it's okay to look at other options, further understand evolution, and if they stumble upon a creationist story and that fits dearer to their heart, then so be it.

I just find that if I encourage them to look at other options, not necessarily point them in the right direction, they might learn a little better. I can, however; envision myself standing in front of my class(not behind a podium), and stating very simply: Evolution is the accepted norm for our coming into exist, however; evolution isn't completely tried and true, and I encourage you to look at other scientific and otherwise "theories." (Oh, and yes, I love my quote hand movements)! I encourage you all to look through LexusNexus, science journals; scholarly sources are your best bet. Oh, and Matt, you can take Ody out. (Oh yes! I will have snakes in my classroom).

So...I don't want to teach them religion. I don't want to teach them to be religious. I don't even want to mention the word God. I simply want to let them know that there are other options out there, whether scientific or otherwise. ^_^ I want to encourage that they learn outside of the classroom. That's all. Whether it's evolution or the stem cell research going on.

Once again, that is not your job!! You need to learn how to keep business and your personal life seperate. It doesn't matter how you word it or how you bring it up. It doesn't belong in the classroom. If you taught at a school and incouraged anything but the curriculum for the class to my children we would have a serious problem. I will not ever expect anyone else to learn about my religion why should you be able to "encourage" them to "learn" anything else? It is not your choice!!!