Questions for the General Public

[Melicious]

sorry mam,i was just taught a different way in school,im really not a bad kid,i just don't understand evolution

Googled from the Scholar Section. You also might want to check out Lexus Nexus and other databases.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...oe=UTF-8&hl=en

[Melicious]

What we know about science education however, says that you need to teach and present evidence to students to make them understand scientific ideas.....

There is no current data/evidence for any of the other "theories" you speak of Melanie......all the ID people have are criticisms of Darwinism.....

Any theory of creation/evolution/mass existence has its large, even growing holes. Every day scientists are learning that their theories are falling by the wayside, and as an aspiring teacher, I will have to teach my students the same, base information. What sort of damage am I doing to my students by allowing these yesteryear bits of information to get into their heads? You're an intelligent man, you've done your research, you didn't allow the teaching of your high school teacher to stick with you and just...sit there. You went out and discovered. I have this feeling that my own students will not be so vigilent in their desire for my knowledge.

[xdeus]

To be correct....evolution as a matter of the geologic/fossial record and a number of field studies is a fact.....facts are based on evidence, data

The theory of evolution by natural selection is a theory......but the word theory to natural scientists mean a very, very specific thing

Thanks for clarifying that. My point was that even scientific theory is based on facts and data, and not just an assumption from someone that wants to fit their belief. I think a big problem with creationists is that they get hung up with the word "theory", but unfortunately the word isn't as clear as it should be.

[Melicious]

Thanks for clarifying that. My point was that even scientific theory is based on facts and data, and not just an assumption from someone that wants to fit their belief. I think a big problem with creationists is that they get hung up with the word "theory", but unfortunately the word isn't as clear as it should be.

And I'd definitely agree with you on the fact that in scientific terms, a theory is based off of facts, however; even Merriam-Webster makes the claim that theory is also a speculation. Most of your common, run-of-the-mill members of the public see it as speculation, that is not necessarily based off of fact.

[Mendel's Balls]

And I'd definitely agree with you on the fact that in scientific terms, a theory is based off of facts, however; even Merriam-Webster makes the claim that theory is also a speculation. Most of your common, run-of-the-mill members of the public see it as speculation, that is not necessarily based off of fact.

A theory is based off data, evidence, and inferences.....sorry if I made that confusing.....

Melanie.....I really dont think you full grasp the concept of how "theory" is being used in the natural sciences...

You said theories....are constantly being overturned every day in science.....this is simply not true.....explanations, models, hypotheses, are often frequenetly proven false, rejected as wrong, or tweaked.....but theories are rarely "overturned"......even when they are overturned it more like they are modified.

PS>theories dont "mature" to become laws of science eithier

[Melicious]

A theory is based off data, evidence, and inferences.....sorry if I made that confusing.....

Melanie.....I really dont think you full grasp the concept of how "theory" is being used in the natural sciences...

You said theories....are constantly being overturned every day in science.....this is simply not true.....explanations, models, hypotheses, are often frequenetly proven false, rejected as wrong, or tweaked.....but theories are rarely "overturned"......even when they are overturned it more like they are modified.

PS>theories dont "mature" to become laws of science eithier

That was my fault. I was typing and then thinking...bad idea. I do, however, know the difference.

Not to avoid another mistake, but I wanted to lean toward the subject I originally wanted to address:

As a teacher, someone that might end up educating one of your children, would you disapprove of my not teaching other ideas of how we came to be, but suggesting that your child, under your supervision or under their own desire to learn more, look at alternatives?

[shhhli]

RANT AHEAD: this thread seemed kinda near and dear to me.

1.) If you're going to wander off into other waters that you cant prove with fact, unlike evolution- which can be a very plausable theory, you dont want to be a high school teacher.
2.)When did you graduate? last time i checked (um... 6 months ago...) most 'kids' dont give a *darn* in science class. or any class for that matter. There's no valour in most public schools you're day dreaming about. Dont get me wrong, but they wont be stary eyed wonders that love you for opening doors. Its going to be heartache and hard work just to get many of them to pass. (Hence the fact that i respect all teachers.)
3.)Be a college professor. and write well. then when the college wines and dines you for getting them publicity for your... theories ... etc.. then you can pretty much tell the students what ever the ...explicit... you want...

This seems kinda cold, but i just want to shake you into realizing that i just graduated. i just sat in classes full of Idiots, litterally, that cheated and whined their way into their diploma. I almost failed HS because my math is so poor. Do you know what it feels like to bust your arse 18 weeks straight and know that some air-headed idiot who begged teachers for their D's are going to graduate and you may sit on the sidelines when in every other class you've made B+ to A+ and never cheated your way into a grade. That's what HS students are worried about. I could have cared less if my teacher taught wicca or chemistry. just so long as what was required for me to learn by the state was taught and i fairly graded, i didnt care.

ALSO YOU WILL HAVE A STATE DICTATED LESSONS YOU HAVE TO TEACH.
if you can find the time to finish all of that and then get into your own theories.... good luck.

[shhhli]

Bleh. that said
for my kids, i want them to be presented with *ALL* the information the STATE requires. i would request that my children *not* be taught alternatives, because usually they get tied into that teacher's beliefs and to chuff(anyone in general, not just the thread poster-interesting topic btw) at me because i just sat in classes with it put in my face not six months ago. My kids would be of HS age, and i would assume that having been a parent for 15 years or so i would have encouraged my children to look for 'alternatives' i guess to what ever popped into their little heads. i would also teach them the value of seeking MULTIPLE opinions and to take a grain of salt with things they read/hear. I dont need a teacher to put their 'theory/ideas' into my kids heads and would not appreciate it. Especially if it was a lot of lightly threaded alternative religion/science that relies mostly on personal opinion and not on tried and practiced science.

[Melicious]

My father is a teacher, and he teaches FUN math. Algebra and geometry to be exact. I actually talked to him about this, and however much we agree, he stated this: Melanie, you can't tell them about these other ideas on our existence, but you can encourage them to look into them. Hell, make it an extra-credit project.

I'm a junior in college, and I just changed my major, so I'll be in college for a while. I know about these lazy students, and they are the driving force behind my wanting to teach. If I can get to these students, I've got it made. It'll take great amounts of dedication, frustration, etc, but I'm willing to give it a go. That, and if I can get Ophelia out from under my fingers, that'll be good too. ^_^

I just find it to be a shame that so many people want to discourage teachers from encouraging their own students to continue their education even after classes end. I know that a lot of people, especially parents, don't like their students learning about evolution. It goes against their own beliefs. I, however; don't want to teach them these alternative beliefs, but I would definitely want to encourage their own learning. What harm is in that?

[Mendel's Balls]

My father is a teacher, and he teaches FUN math. Algebra and geometry to be exact. I actually talked to him about this, and however much we agree, he stated this: Melanie, you can't tell them about these other ideas on our existence, but you can encourage them to look into them. Hell, make it an extra-credit project.

As a teacher, someone that might end up educating one of your children, would you disapprove of my not teaching other ideas of how we came to be, but suggesting that your child, under your supervision or under their own desire to learn more, look at alternatives?

I just find it to be a shame that so many people want to discourage teachers from encouraging their own students to continue their education even after classes end. I know that a lot of people, especially parents, don't like their students learning about evolution. It goes against their own beliefs. I, however; don't want to teach them these alternative beliefs, but I would definitely want to encourage their own learning. What harm is in that?

As a science teacher your job as a professional is to promote scientific education, scientific ideas....your alternative ideas are not alternative scientific ideas!

telling them to look for alternatives and giving extra-credit which can determine their grades will just dumb your class down......

A lot of scientific ideas go against people's beleifs not just evolution......will you humor their beleifs or only yours?