Investment Questions

[JLeo]

I'm looking to invest some money in a few ball python morphs(isnt that original?) and I have a few questions. How much do co-dom prices fluxuate? Do they go down steadily each year, or is it all just supply and demand. Basically in the last few years, how much have pastels,spiders, mojave prices specifically fluxuate, and how do you think they will be in the future. I'm also wondering this with the recessive morphs, as I realise they would hold more price because of their genetics. Any feed back would be welcome, thanks.

[kavmon]

in the past 2 years i've noticed that co-dom prices drop faster than recessives. it takes time to raise those het girls up. i think long term recessive projects will hold value longer because of this. i think it's good to have both co-dom and recessives, that way while you're raising hets you can also produce morphs.


vaughn

[rabernet]

I'm a recessives fan myself, but I have more time than money right now. In fact, if all my plans pan out, I hope to have 4 het males by the end of the summer. Next year, I may then invest in a pastel girl and breed her to one of the het males. Not only will I have some visible morphs, but they will also be 50% possible hets, which increases their value as well. Plus, I think it would be very satisfying in another 5 or six years to see a hypo pastel pip out of the egg!

[daniel1983]

Just a general question...

How is everyone supposed to know how much the prices fluctuate if the majority of morphs have only been out there for the last 5 years? People spend their entire lives trying to figure out the stock market and never do....so trying to figure out a new market like ball pythons is just hopeless...everything that anyone says is really just guesses and no one knows what will happen... IMO.

Buy snakes that you like and breed snakes that you like. If you look at keeping animals as an investment, you will get very dissappointed and stressed out about falling prices. Alot of people who complain about the falling prices are usually more interested in the money than their snakes....people that never complain about falling prices love ball pythons and see it as an opportunity to get more

ha ha....After saying that.....

I think the future of the ball python market is 'mixing and matching'. You can get a pastel for $700 and a spider for $3500.....combine the two and you have an animal that sells for $15,000+ currently. Even if the price were to drop 50% in the TWO OR THREE years it takes to raise up and breed the pastel and spider, you are still almost doubling your money if you produce one bumblebee. Also, I think double homo. recessives will have the most stable price for the next couple of years because there are not many around and they are not easy to produce as double co/dominants.

Thats just my take on the whole "investment'' idea.

Ha ha....bp 'investment'....more like 'money pit'

[Adam_Wysocki]

I'm looking to invest some money in a few ball python morphs(isnt that original?) and I have a few questions. How much do co-dom prices fluxuate? Do they go down steadily each year, or is it all just supply and demand. Basically in the last few years, how much have pastels,spiders, mojave prices specifically fluxuate, and how do you think they will be in the future. I'm also wondering this with the recessive morphs, as I realise they would hold more price because of their genetics. Any feed back would be welcome, thanks.

Prices don't really fluctuate. Each year as more and more people invest in ball pythons with the intention of breeding for profit, supply is increased and prices go down. There are some exceptions to that rule, but for the most part it is very consistent. The good news is that ball pythons are HOT ... they are the hottest thing that the reptile market has ever seen and it seems like everyone wants a morph .... as prices go down, all it really does is make morphs available to more and more people that can now afford them at lower price points. More customers is a good thing! Also, as your investment animals get older, their value goes up …. an adult male pastel can be worth twice as much as a hatchling … and finally, the breeding lives of these animals can exceed 20 years … so even if you only manage to make a 10% return on your investment annually (which would be like spending $1,000 on a pastel and producing a single pastel worth $100 every year) you’re still doing many times better with your money than putting into a money market account, a certificate of deposit, or blue chip stocks (all of which are investments just like a ball python morph would be).

If you're looking to "flip" your investment and make all of your money back 2, 3, or 4 times over inside of 12 months, ball pythons are probably not the way to do it ( I’m thinking trips to Mexico here, but that’s just because I watch a lot of movies ) ... very few people have entered into this business over the last 10 years and have been able to pull that off ... and those that have used extremely large initial cash investments to do it .... but, if you're looking to invest some money into a really cool animal that when combined with a good business plan and breeding strategy could cover your expenses, pay for some extra presents around the holiday, and maybe even cover the cost of taking the family on vacation once a year .... ball pythons can certainly do that for you. It takes hard work and patience, but in the end it is well worth it.

The other part of your question about co-doms vs. recessives and their values over time should be looked at like this ....

Don't compare pastels to albinos ... it's not a fair comparison ... if instead you compare a pastel to a het albino (pastel x pastel gives you a 1 in 4 shot at a super pastel just like het albino x het albino gives you a 1 in 4 shot at an albino) and a super pastel to an albino and look at how the prices of each have dropped over the last 7 years, you'll find that they are basically the same. Breeding pastel x normal is a lot like breeding het albino x normal as far as market prices and investments go and if your goals with pastels aren't based on anything bigger than cranking out more pastels than you definitely won't be maximizing your investment .... Just like I try and suggest to people interested in getting into het albinos that a pair is a better investment if you can afford it, for pastels, a pair is certainly a better choice than a single male long term … once quality super pastels hit the $1,000 - $2,000 price range, no one will be able to make enough of them!

Just my $.02 ... Hope it helps.

-adam

[JLeo]

Thanks for the feed back guys. I'm not looking for the best way to make the most money soonest, I was just wondering what the prices have done in the past, and where you think they'll go. This is purely a hobby but I love to think of the best ways to get it started. I love snakes, all the different morphs, the active market, and the genetics.

[Cubby23]

I just started my investment this week. I bought a het pair of albins from TSE. Total price $600. I'm aiming at having one or two albinos in 2008. Possibly selling one but probably keeping. If you are looking at doing this you are not gonna make much moneyuntil you can breed those second generations to its het parents to get half albinos half hets. So there you are looking at arounf 6 years. But also remember I will be getting one or two albinos from one pair 09 10 and 11. And by then an 08 female albino, or het can be breed with and 09 or 10 male. The thing about mixing the morphs is a great point. But I thought a bumble bee was an albino x spider. what would a albino x spider make? And can you breed albinos to pastels, spiders, mojaves, etc. Well hope you understand this ramble.

[ARamos8]

IMHO, I'm with Adam. The plan for me is to get a pair of pastels. Take it slow, easy and most importantly enjoy having such precious creatures. If a Super or two happen to show up (keepers of course) then I've achived the eye on the prize. The rest of the pastels would be sold and re-invest those funds back into the hobby ie: better cages, equipment, etc.

Sure, it would be nice to make a living being around these great creatures all day long. It's all personal preference, just be smart about it and keep the animals happy (if that's possible) and healthy.

(my opinion.)

Tony...