Regurge ??

[sweety314]

So the information from reading and researching is all a bunch of conflict. Duuuuuhhhh!!! Like THAT'S never happened before????

Wrigley was 150g on 12/19 and had eaten a ~~3 wk rat pup that same day. On Christmas Eve it was feeding time and he refused the fresh killed rat pup, but on NYE he acted hungry and I put a FT rat pup, (same litter, but almost a week older now) in with him. He had been eating FT, but I didn' have any at the time so his two prev. feedings with me were live. Now I'm back to FT.

He struck and constricted for about 5 min on the FT rat. Took him another 5 or so min. of feeling around and "sizing it up" before he actually ate. I was feeding him in his tub, on the Aspen because he had been used to it before. This was around 0200 New Years Day. 10pm that night I found a VERY stinky present in the tub. He had regurged the rat.

1. Too big? Not quite thawed even tho' it was warm to my touch and no hard spots?
2. Wasn't hungry quite yet but piggied anyway?
3. Injested aspen enough to irritate?
4. Handling his head to remove the little sliver out of his teeth set him off?

Any way...1-4 are just guesses and speculation, but the contradiction is....

How long do I have to wait for him to heal before I can try feeding him again??? I've boosted his temps about 2 degrees, humidity is fine, and I've pretty much left him alone. Only handled him to take him out so I could empty and clean the tub from the rat stink and to clean out the gray poo he left yesterday? day before??? Hmmmmm Is a week long enough or should I consider two instead??? What I've researched and read says a week, some say two weeks and another said a month. Huh???

Aaaaaaaaack!

TIA for the benefit of your benevolent wisdoms!

RuLyn

[Adam_Wysocki]

Off the top of my head, could be the rat wasn't fully thawed, rat too big, the temps in the cage are too high or low, or the snake has a parasitic infection.

I like to get fecals done ASAP after any regurg.

I doubt that the ingested aspen had anything to do with it. And if touching him while he was swallowing freaked him out enough to puke, he would have done it right then and there, not 20 hours later.

A regurg is pretty stressful, I would wait at least 2 weeks before offering food again and I would make it something much smaller than normal.

I'm not a boa guy, but from what I remember, boas with internal parasites or kept at bad temps are pretty prone to regurges.

-adam

[Shelby]

Regurges are commonly caused by handling too soon after feeding - doesn't sound like you did that. Just handling the head wouldn't cause a regurge.

Too large a prey item can do it. Was the rat much larger than his belly is around? Baby boas don't do well with oversized meals.

A F/T should NEVER have any unthawed parts. It can do your snake a good deal of harm. I make sure my F/T rats are all very warm all the way through.

I would skip a week then offer a small food item.

[sweety314]

Thanks for the feedback! The rat wasn't much bigger week to week, but I'm not a snake...still within the food to girth guidelines.


It was warm to the touch, and FELT thawed all the way through, but I'm new to the FT practice. Is there some other good way to tell? (Short of something like a meat thermometer???

Nope, didn't handle anything more than his head/mouth to "clean his teeth".

Shelby,

Since it was a "home grown" FT do they "outgas" after being euthanized with the CO2????? I froze them as soon as they died & it was one of these that he had upchucked. I've since ordered some FT adult MICE from a vendor even tho he was taking rat pups when I bought him, I should start on mice again???

[Shelby]

As far as telling when they're thawed - I take the rat out of the water and pinch the belly in the middle it should feel soft and squishy (yum yum) all the way through. I keep the rat out of the hot water for a minute or so, then feel the hip joint and near the neck to feel for any cold spots.

Co2 is completely harmless to the snake as far as killing the rat with it goes. All mammals naturally exhale Co2, you're not introducing anything foreign, or toxic to the snake.

Adult mouse or rat pup, makes no difference since they're the same size. Personally I'd stick with rats so your snake gets used to eating what he will be eating when he's bigger.

[kavmon]

when my wife got her boa, the breeders(ectothermics) recommended to feed once every 2 weeks and keep every part of the cage above 80 deg. also to feed small rodents(don't try to lump him up). as adam said, too much food,too low temps, or parasites are the most popular reasons for regurge.

vaughn

[sweety314]

As far as telling when they're thawed - I take the rat out of the water and pinch the belly in the middle it should feel soft and squishy (yum yum) all the way through. I keep the rat out of the hot water for a minute or so, then feel the hip joint and near the neck to feel for any cold spots.

Co2 is completely harmless to the snake as far as killing the rat with it goes. All mammals naturally exhale Co2, you're not introducing anything foreign, or toxic to the snake.

Adult mouse or rat pup, makes no difference since they're the same size. Personally I'd stick with rats so your snake gets used to eating what he will be eating when he's bigger.

Thanks.....Rat was squishy tummied (that's what I was always checking), but I didn't know about the neck/hip joint check after the rat had cooled a bit. I'll add that into the routine. He's been really active, and was slithering all over after I put him back from doing a water change and tank spot clean. In a few days I'll try again, but something a little smaller.

Shouldn't the rat be really warm to the touch?

Thanks!

[Shelby]

Yes the rat should be quite warm.

[SatanicIntention]

Hun, you really should wait at least 2 weeks to feed him again, not just a couple days.

Regurgitation causes the gut flora to diminish and just get all out of whack. If you feed him this soon, he may regurge again. His esophagus also needs to heal as food isn't supposed to go the opposite way(think of it as major acid reflux-erosions, etc.).

It is just best to wait, and then try him on a smallish mouse or rat fuzzy. Try the smaller prey items for the first few meals following a regurge and then gradually work up to a normal-sized prey. When you feed him, you don't want the prey item to cause a lump. A slight thickening is fine, although it is best to err on the smaller side of things when choosing a prey item, especially with baby boas.

As for his health, you will probably want to go get a fecal sample checked as well as double checking his temperatures(nothing under 80 regardless of what caresheets say, 78 is too low for proper digestion- try 80-82 and 90-92 respectively, and check ambient temps as well). There is no need to worry about aspen ingestion as snakes are designed to digest bone, teeth and hair, so a little cellulose from a tree isn't going to do much(much simpler chemical make-up) .

I hope that helped a bit and good luck with the cutie patootie baby boa

[sweety314]

Thanks Becky. By the time I get home and get things organized, it will have been over a week. That's why I posted in the first place. Some say ONE week, others say TWO.


I understand how he feels. I HATE it when I rowlph, so I imagine he's 10x WORSE since we're designed and do it often enough, but snakes aren't supposed to!!!

The room is 78F, his stearlite tub is a steady 94/ 86. I ended up with the temp to lack of eating problems when I first got Baby and my roomie kept turning on the AC < in Feb & March!!! ? > and chilling the room. She didn't eat for almost 6 months. So yeah, I know to keep the temps up. Some other suggestions had been to bump 'em up a deg. or two to help the healing.

As for his being a cutie patootie....I wished I had the means of posting pics!!! Waaaaaaah! I can't wait until I get the home PC set up and can at least use the webcam's SW for pictures to send to y'all. Pissy Snake is growing like a weed, and I want to show off Wrigley and Kishnah.