Temp Problems - Thoughts on what I did?

[lX V1P3R Xl]

Ahh got it, so you have a bit of a unique situation then. Cool set up btw, looks great!

Since you're heating a tub, I think in my case being directly on the pvc itself, instead of covering the entire bottom with heat tape I'll cover 2/3rds of it to allow the cool side to cool down a bit more. It should still allow a warm ground for digestion while still giving an opportunity for the cool side to cool a bit more with the RHP and tape.

Is there a specific heat tape you guys recommend or any to stay away from?

Also, side question with those of you that have an 18in high cage, do you prefer the 18 over the 12 and why? I did order the 12, but if you all feel the 18in height is much better for whatever reason, I'm sure I could call them tomorrow and pay the difference for the 18in. But perhaps with my cold room, I'm over complicating things, it's not actually necessary, and I should just stick with the 12in.

[Homebody]

Is there a specific heat tape you guys recommend or any to stay away from?

Also, side question with those of you that have an 18in high cage, do you prefer the 18 over the 12 and why? I did order the 12, but if you all feel the 18in height is much better for whatever reason, I'm sure I could call them tomorrow and pay the difference for the 18in. But perhaps with my cold room, I'm over complicating things, it's not actually necessary, and I should just stick with the 12in.

I got my heat tape from Reptile Basics. You can order it by the foot and they'll connect the plug for you.

I don't have an 18" enclosure, but I've heard the 12" enclosure can be difficult to get into for cleaning and maintenance. On the other hand, the 12" would, theoretically, be easier to heat.

[Malum Argenteum]

Pros of taller enclosures are that there is a lot more room for enrichment items -- natural material hides (cork rounds), climbing opportunities. There is more room to just get hands in there to work. More clearance for RHP (which takes up at least an inch of headroom). More thermal gradient (both horizontal and vertical).

Cons of taller enclosures are that they can be somewhat more challenging to heat, but the difference between 12" and 18" tall isn't much in this regard.

In general, a taller enclosure is going to be better for nearly any snake (exceptions might be really heavy bodied snakes such as those in the P. brongersmai complex -- short tailed pythons); 18" isn't really that tall.

I recommended a T8 initially since it is OK for a BP and importantly is a quicker ship item (and you're apparently in something of a time crunch). But checking just now it looks like they have T3, T4, T5, T8, T10, T11 and T12s ready to ship, so you have plenty of choice.

My BP (male) is in a T8 (so, 48 x 24 x 12" tall), and the height is limiting. If I had more vertical room to spare, a 24" tall would be nice to give him a little climbing space.

[Bogertophis]

The only plastic (HDPE) enclosures I've ever tried were 12" tall, & I hated the low height. I think 18" should be minimum- 12" is very awkward to clean (assuming you're reaching in from a side door- it would be a little better if the top opened), & with substrate & furnishings, it's even less for the snake.

[lX V1P3R Xl]

I'll give them a call tomorrow to see if they can upgrade to a T5 (3x2x1.5). I think a taller height shouldn't make too big of a difference with my room temps generally in the very high 60's to low 70s at worst. If I run into bottom temp problems on the cool side, I can replace the 2ft tape with 3ft heat tape to cover the whole thing like dakski does. With him having a 4ft though, I may not have that same issue. I can't do the 4ft T8 because there just isn't enough room in my place for that extra length anyway so I'm stuck with the 3ft as far as length goes.

I forgot dakski also pointed out reptile basics for the heat tape, ha. Too much going through my mind to remember everything I suppose.

So far the plan is:
AP T3 or T5
Pro Products RHP
2 ft heat tape to cover 2/3rds of the tank
herpstat 2
repticarpet

She better know that I care with all that I'm spending right now... haha. She's a rare one. She's never been shy about drinking water in front of me, which I hear most BP's are. While hanging around my neck, she has drank water many times from her water bowl while it is in my hands and I'm changing the water over. Plus, she has drank water cupped in my BARE hands 2 or 3 times. Nice 3-10 second drinks, and yes, she always has water available to her so lack of water wasn't the reason lol.

Again, I appreciate all the help/advice from you all!

[dakski]

I'll give them a call tomorrow to see if they can upgrade to a T5 (3x2x1.5). I think a taller height shouldn't make too big of a difference with my room temps generally in the very high 60's to low 70s at worst. If I run into bottom temp problems on the cool side, I can replace the 2ft tape with 3ft heat tape to cover the whole thing like dakski does. With him having a 4ft though, I may not have that same issue. I can't do the 4ft T8 because there just isn't enough room in my place for that extra length anyway so I'm stuck with the 3ft as far as length goes.

I forgot dakski also pointed out reptile basics for the heat tape, ha. Too much going through my mind to remember everything I suppose.

So far the plan is:
AP T3 or T5
Pro Products RHP
2 ft heat tape to cover 2/3rds of the tank
herpstat 2
repticarpet

She better know that I care with all that I'm spending right now... haha. She's a rare one. She's never been shy about drinking water in front of me, which I hear most BP's are. While hanging around my neck, she has drank water many times from her water bowl while it is in my hands and I'm changing the water over. Plus, she has drank water cupped in my BARE hands 2 or 3 times. Nice 3-10 second drinks, and yes, she always has water available to her so lack of water wasn't the reason lol.

Again, I appreciate all the help/advice from you all!

I want to clarify one thing and give my two cents on cage height.

First, the clarification.

In my 4X2' tanks the heat tape is 1'X2' (1' wide and 2' deep) on the warm side and the same on the hot side. They take up a total of 50% of the tank floor. However, the cool side is kept at 78F on all my tanks except my corn snakes (they are fine at cage temp which in the winter is about 74F on the cool side at lowest due to the RHP and stacking of tanks which equal insulation). It is to insure that even if it gets cool in the reptile area (part of my finished basement), the cool side never gets too low. It is more of a backup than anything in the summer and in the winter maintains minimum temps.

In my 6X2' tanks for my boas, the heat tapes covers the same 1'X2' on each side. OP, if you want 2 FT of heat tape, I would use 1ft on the hot side for proper heat and digestion in conjunction with the RHP and 1ft on the cool side to maintain minimum temps.

Secondly, cage height.

All my tanks except my 4X2X1.5' for my Carpet Python and my BP (by coincidence and not design) are 1' tall. This was a necessity when I bought them due to space constraints and a low ceiling and needing to stack the tanks. Would I have preferred taller tanks, especially for the boas, yes. However, they come out often and I let them move around and climb, etc. For Yafe, the Carpet, it is necessity, as he is highly arboreal and uses the height and PVC branches all the time.

In terms of cleaning. 18'"/1.5' is much easier, especially if I had it for my lower stacked tanks. I have to use knee pads to clean the lowest tanks which are on pedestals (1FT for my leopard gecko enclosure and 1.5' for the lowest corn snake enclosure) and stretch my old back after. The angle makes those tanks a little annoying. However, since I use paper substrate they are not too bad to clean. Further, the higher elevated tanks are really not an issue.

I will also add that given a cooler and dryer environment, a 1' tall tank will need a smaller water bowl to generate the same humidity. In a 3X2' this might actually be a benefit because of space constraints versus a larger tank. Probably not a huge difference, especially for a BP that needs about 50% humidity, but worth mentioning.

I do not know the price difference, but if cost is an issue for the OP, and taller tanks are more money, I would rather see the funds spent on a proper setup that is 1' tall than a less optimal one that is 1.5' tall. Additionally, down the road, if the OP adds snakes (I know, this is impossible and everyone stops at one snake), and needs to stack, the lower tank would be a benefit.

Regarding a BP. They will use the height, but not like a boa or carpet python, or even a corn snake. BP's are ground snakes. They burrow in the wild and wait for prey to come by. Climbing is not a normal thing for them although they can and will. My male Boa/BI, Jeff, and Shayna (BP) are about the same weight although my BI is longer. If you put Jeff on your arm or neck he hold ons and maneuvers like a pro, as does my Carpet, Yafe. Shayna, she will hold on as not to fall, but is hardly as graceful in that circumstance. Note the small stubby tail on a BP vs. the prehensile tail on a carpet or something in between on a boa.

The point? BP's do not need the height. In a 3X2' it would be nice to give them some extra real estate, but mostly, it is for the keeper to have an easier time cleaning. It is also helpful if substantial substrate is needed or used as that limits height.

This may not be a popular view, but in captivity, we do the best we can for our animals (or should), but generally are not providing a perfect environment. Let us face it, a 3X2', 4X2', or even 6X2' is hardly the same as a jungle, for example. We manage temps and humidity, etc. and control other variables well (e.g. lack of parasites and predators, and regular food). However, it is up to us to keep our animals happy and shape through other enrichment such as handling.

I understand my views might not be consistent with other users. I am not preaching at all but I thought it might be food for thought.

OP - great job on wanting what is best for your BP, asking questions and follow ups, and clearly incorporating what you have learned. Please keep us posted as at least I am invested in seeing this tank situation come to a happy conclusion.

[lX V1P3R Xl]

I did call AP and upgrade to a 3x2x1.5 this morning so it's a done deal at this point. If I do add to the collection some day, I don't see myself getting more than one or two more so I don't see stacking height becoming an issue. I think the extra space will be good since her whole life she's always been poking around the ceiling of her current cage. Also, the house has had cold issues overall so far this winter but during the weekends and days off, the room I have her in gets pretty warm because it's my gaming room. The extra space may help prevent it from overheating as well, especially in warmer months. I do monitor the room temp of course and open the room door when it gets too warm.

Dakski- follow up question on your reply though: with a RHP and two separate heat tape plug-ins, I'm assuming you have a herpstat 4 or higher? It did cross my mind to do different heat tape for warm and cold side so over the weekend I looked to see if they had a herpstat 3 and how much it would be. They only have a 4 and I just couldn't go that high in price right now so I got the 2. I could use the herpstat 2 I have on order to control the RHP and a 2ft long section under the warm side. Then use one of the original thermostats I currently use to control a 1ft section on the cold side. However, that's the basic thermostat people aren't thrilled over. I had planned on buying the heat tape tonight so I actually haven't ordered the heat tape yet.

And don't worry, I'll post pics when everything is all together!

[dakski]

I have on/off thermostats from Boaphile. Jeff Ronne (the Boaphile) manufactured all my tanks and I bought the thermostats from him. I believe they are Ranco thermostats that he modifies, but do not quote me on it.

https://boaphileplastics.com/product/double-thermostat/

I like them because they are redundant. If the main one fails open, the second thermostat shuts it down. Safety first. I also like that you can run many devices off the same thermostat.

This leads to how I run my heating elements.

First, the large tank stack (the 6X2' tanks) for the boas, the leopard gecko, and the Blue Tongue Skink, all have the same cool side temps - 78F - except Carra (the Leopard Gecko). So I have a probe in between two of the tanks on the cool side and have the thermostat keeping the cool sides 78F at all times.

Second, on the 4X2' tanks, I have one thermostat run the whole tank. How? The RHP and heat tape on the hot side and the cool side heat tape all run off the same thermostat. This works for two reasons. First, the heat tape on the cool side is a lower wattage. I think about 25-33% lower. I do not remember exactly. This way, the same wattage achieves a lower temp than the hot side heat tape. Secondly, the RHP warms enough that the heat tape does not do a ton of work. This is a specialized setup and took a lot of dialing in to get correct. It works great now, but I have considered (and still do) running the heat tape(s) on one and the RHP on another for each tank, as I do on the larger tanks for the cool side. The issue is the 6X2' tanks all have the same temps and the 4X2' tanks do not. This makes the 4X2' tanks more work because all the animals have different requirements.

How does it apply to you, OP?

Below are my thoughts, but I have only used herpstats (I have used them for other setups and I have one as a backup) with one device per channel. You would have to consult them or the manual, or users here more familiar, to see if the below is plausible or safe.

You could get lower wattage heat tape for the cool side and see what happens running the RHP on one circuit and the two heat tapes on the other. You might have to keep the hot side heat tape a little cooler, but with the RHP, that should be okay. Alternatively, you could run the hot side heat tape off one and the RHP off one and the cool side off the other.

You could also, at least temporarily, run your old thermostat on the cool side heat tape and get lower wattage to be safe.

Keep in mind, this may all be arbitrary as the cool side heat tape is potentially not needed. It might make sense to run the warm side RHP on one circuit and the warm side heat tape off the other and see how that works. It could be enough in the 3X2'.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[lX V1P3R Xl]

Oh dang, that's interesting. Well of course I can't speak for how safe/plausible it would be to try that out for obvious reasons so perhaps someone else in here has some experience with that and can weigh in? It definitely all makes sense though.

Do you agree I should probably see how a 2ft section on the warm side works out before getting the extra foot on the cold side, since I can always add it later? As far as the heat tape itself goes, lower wattage correlates to the width, right? If I were to get a lower wattage, I assume I'd be looking for 6in heat tape or do they have 12in at lower wattage as well?

[dakski]

Oh dang, that's interesting. Well of course I can't speak for how safe/plausible it would be to try that out for obvious reasons so perhaps someone else in here has some experience with that and can weigh in? It definitely all makes sense though.

Do you agree I should probably see how a 2ft section on the warm side works out before getting the extra foot on the cold side, since I can always add it later? As far as the heat tape itself goes, lower wattage correlates to the width, right? If I were to get a lower wattage, I assume I'd be looking for 6in heat tape or do they have 12in at lower wattage as well?

I do not agree with that. I would not get more than 2ft total for your tank and not more than 1ft on the warm side. I have 2ft total on my 4X2' and 6X2' tanks.

Your BP needs a temperature gradient. That means 88F hot down to 78F cool side. If you use 2ft of heat tape on the hot side as one piece and run off one channel on the thermostat, you would have to set it lower than ideal temp for the hot side to make it acceptable for the middle.

The idea is you want to give your BP options. You do not want hot and cold, but hot, less hot, and cool side. The bigger the tank the larger the gradient can be. In a 3X2', 2FT of heat tape is already a lot, and as we have discussed, potentially unnecessary. The heat tape allows for belly heat but is not designed to heat the tank as the RHP does that. If you had 1X1' of heat tape, that would be fine too, but covering 1X2' makes it easier (front to back).

We are borderline overthinking this now. If you get 2FT, get two pieces and one for the hot side and one for the cool side. Initially, I would only plug in the hot side heat tape and the RHP and see what temps you get on the cool side. That might be perfect. If it isn't, then worry about the cool side.

In case it hasn't been said, set up the tank and then put your BP in. You want to make sure everything is dialed and in for a day or two before putting your BP in it.

I had the heat tape preinstalled by Jeff at Boaphile so I am not sure on how the wattage works. That is something you would have to look into. Again, you could just get the same heat tape and run off a separate thermostat, or a different channel. Wattage should limit the highest temp the most and the lowest less.