Feeding

[nvmycj]

Hello guys & gals!

First post, so please forgive my ignorance. My banana pastel is eating live, very well,
every 7-10 days. My local pet store didn’t have any mice that I thought were big enough. So I bought a small rat.

my question: (hold back your laughs?)

1. He didn’t take the rat. He acted scared of it. He’d bump the rat with his snout several times then jerk back like he was scared. Do rats smell different than mice?

2. What’s the best way to transition to frozen/thawed?

thanks so much!

[Bogertophis]

You're forgiven- it's smart to ask. And yes, rats smell (& presumably taste-) very different from mice, & also pose much more danger to snakes- they're smarter, have bigger teeth & fight for life harder- they can hurt or even kill a snake, depending on the size/age of the rat. Here's the thing: Both mice & rats will defend themselves only after their eyes are open. Until that time, they're helpless. Once their eyes are open, both can & will bite back, but rats are tougher. Most snakes are instinctively fearful of rats, especially when all they've known so far is mice. Some BPs may never accept rats as food, others prefer them-

Best way to transition- if you can (with locally available live food of the right size) is once the snake is big enough to take 2 small items as one meal- first give them a small live fuzzy/hopper mouse- make sure it's not enough to fill them up- (exact items depend on size of your snake), & once they've taken that, (soon after, while they're still "pumped up" in "feed mode" as we say) offer a small second item that's freshly pre-killed (p/k) or frozen/thawed (f/t), either rat or mouse, depending on what you're trying to switch them to. Above all, be patient, don't offer meals too often- make sure the snake is really hungry, & feed at the right time (evening) with low lighting & no commotion in the room to distract or intimidate the snake. In other words, keep yourself in the background. Even though your snake has been eating well, when you make changes, they can be more sensitive.

About sizes of prey- you didn't mention the size/age of your snake or how long you've had him, but most BPs start off big enough to take one mouse hopper as a meal. A mouse fuzzy is smaller & not enough on it's own, & might be hard to come by if your local store isn't breeding them- so I hope they are. So when you're ready to transition a young BP, a live fuzzy might be enough of a live "appetizer", followed by a f/t hopper. See? Also, understand that BPs depend on the heat signature of their prey, so when you offer f/t, make sure it has "lifelike" warmth- many soak prey briefly in very warm water, &/or use a blow dryer & offer quickly, while it's warm enough to get the snake's attention. Also, get & use feeding tongs if you haven't already.

[nvmycj]

Howdy!

So sorry for my delayed reply. I didn't have my notifications set correctly, so I hope the changes I've made will work! Fingers crossed!

I bought my BP in July '23 at a convention. They told me his hatch date was in May. So I got him as a 2 month old. As we speak, he's 7 months old and about 23" long.

I take him out of his enclosure and feed him in a separate 10gallon tank. He's been eating what I believe to be are hoppers. He ate a rather large mouse once, as the pet store had nothing smaller available. (I wish I could post a video.) My pet store has no fuzzies available when I go there. Mostly hoppers and bigger.

If they have fuzzies, I'll give your recommendations a try. Feed him a fuzzy, and then offer a f/t hopper.

I sincerely appreciate your help.

Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones!

~~Matej

[Bogertophis]

...

I take him out of his enclosure and feed him in a separate 10gallon tank....

I highly recommend you stop doing that- the handling can stress many snakes into NOT eating- they feel braver when on their home turf (typically when peeking out of one of their hides). BPs are not "active hunters"- they're actually ambush predators that wait for clueless prey to get too close to where they're hiding, & ZAP! They mostly go by heat signatures, + a little motion from the prey, but not too much- keep it subtle when offering f/t, & make it look like prey is not approaching them directly- because in nature, rodents just don't volunteer to get eaten. OK?

Not to mention, you're more likely to get BIT this way, either before he eats (hungry snake gets "warm & wiggling" heat signature from your hands & chomp!) or when you try to put him back home- since after eating, snakes stay in "feed mode" (ready to pounce again on whatever comes along) for hours or even days after that meal. There is just NO good reason to feed anywhere other than in the snake's regular home.

And Merry Christmas to you too!

[nvmycj]

Ok! I will most definitely stop doing his feeds in a separate tank. Thank you so much for this valuable information!! It’s greatly appreciated!!

[BeansTheDerp]

I'm happy to see that you asked about transitioning to frozen/thawed, I was otherwise going to recommend it since it is the safer option!
switching to frozen/thawed can take some time depending on the snake, but since your snake seems used to mice I would first try a frozen thawed mouse.
As far as the switch, this is how I did it with my ball python:
At first I tried just immediately going to the frozen/thawed but that didn't work, he wasn't taking it though part of the reason could be that I was not doing things correctly because it was my first time trying to feed frozen/thawed. You can try to go straight to frozen/thawed but if that doesn't work (and there are plenty of tricks to get your ball python to eat frozen thawed, you would have to take a look at other threads to see the lists made there, or if someone else who knows them better could kindly list them for you that would be great) then you could try the way I did it. I noticed that the smell of the live rats were a bit stronger, and got his attention better, so we tried prekilled rats. Keep in mind if I knew about and had tried all the tricks that have been suggested on this forum I probably wouldn't have had to deal with prekilled.
My snake eats with privacy better, seems to be his preference (if your snake has been on live then you will probably be tong feeding for a while) and he would take it.
With F/T I would keep the rodents in a minifridge/freezer, and the middle of the day before feeding day, I would get the rodent from the freezer section and put it in the fridge section to thaw. I recommend putting the rodent in a Ziplock bag and setting the Ziplock bag in a container (in my case I used an old ice-cream bucket) filled with hot water (not enough to melt the bag) to heat it up. Using a temp gun I would check the temps every once in a while and because of the long thawing period it wouldn't take that long to heat up properly if the water temps were 127 Fahrenheit or higher. Check the temps of the rodent by opening the bag and pointing the temp gun laser at the head of the rodent, it's ready to feed when the head reaches 105 degrees Fahrenheit.
I hope this helps, I'm sure others will have many more information to give you about F/T.

[nvmycj]

You're forgiven- it's smart to ask. And yes, rats smell (& presumably taste-) very different from mice, & also pose much more danger to snakes- they're smarter, have bigger teeth & fight for life harder- they can hurt or even kill a snake, depending on the size/age of the rat. Here's the thing: Both mice & rats will defend themselves only after their eyes are open. Until that time, they're helpless. Once their eyes are open, both can & will bite back, but rats are tougher. Most snakes are instinctively fearful of rats, especially when all they've known so far is mice. Some BPs may never accept rats as food, others prefer them-

Best way to transition- if you can (with locally available live food of the right size) is once the snake is big enough to take 2 small items as one meal- first give them a small live fuzzy/hopper mouse- make sure it's not enough to fill them up- (exact items depend on size of your snake), & once they've taken that, (soon after, while they're still "pumped up" in "feed mode" as we say) offer a small second item that's freshly pre-killed (p/k) or frozen/thawed (f/t), either rat or mouse, depending on what you're trying to switch them to. Above all, be patient, don't offer meals too often- make sure the snake is really hungry, & feed at the right time (evening) with low lighting & no commotion in the room to distract or intimidate the snake. In other words, keep yourself in the background. Even though your snake has been eating well, when you make changes, they can be more sensitive.

About sizes of prey- you didn't mention the size/age of your snake or how long you've had him, but most BPs start off big enough to take one mouse hopper as a meal. A mouse fuzzy is smaller & not enough on it's own, & might be hard to come by if your local store isn't breeding them- so I hope they are. So when you're ready to transition a young BP, a live fuzzy might be enough of a live "appetizer", followed by a f/t hopper. See? Also, understand that BPs depend on the heat signature of their prey, so when you offer f/t, make sure it has "lifelike" warmth- many soak prey briefly in very warm water, &/or use a blow dryer & offer quickly, while it's warm enough to get the snake's attention. Also, get & use feeding tongs if you haven't already.

HE ATE!!! HE FRIGGIN’ ATE!!!!

I thawed the baby rat in warm water for about 20 minutes. Then used my wife’s hairdryer to dry/heat it up some more like you suggested. (My wife was like, “what the hell are you doing with my hair dryer!?!” Needless to say, I used tongs wiggling and teasing Soupy IN HIS ENCLOSURE (😊&#128522 near his hide’s opening. He came out, very inquisitive and didn’t seem interested, until he coiled up and WHAM! Done deal! Scared the 💩 out of me! So fingers crossed, we’ll do the same thing next week or so.

thanks again for your help! Loved to hair dryer recommendation!

[nvmycj]

Thanks for your recommendations!

out of curiosity, why keep them in ziplock bag?

good news,… HE ATE!!!!

[nvmycj]

[nvmycj]

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