Hundreds of small animals meant for adoption may have been frozen, fed to reptiles

[Bogertophis]

Arizona humane should absolutely be held accountable for their part as well...
I just expected better of reptile groups. Especially if they're also claiming to be a rescue

Yes, for sure. The shelter didn't vet the "adopter" & should have been very suspicious at anyone taking in so many animals all at once. "Hello?" But in this case, the shelter put someone in charge that was dishonest & had their own agenda. Shelters generally cannot pay great wages & good (dedicated, hard-working & honest) help is hard to come by. I'm a former board member of a local humane society shelter in my town. Several years ago, we found ourselves with a very untrustworthy employee- not working in the shelter with animals, but supervising the thrift store that raises money for the shelter. What a nightmare some employees can turn out to be, no matter how thorough you think you've been when hiring them.

As far as the reptile "rescue"- there's a HUGE difference between calling yourself a rescue & actually BEING a rescue. There are plenty of animal hoarders (for all kinds of animals) with their hands out for any free "rescue" animals that are NOT qualified as rescuers...not even close! There are also plenty who claim to be a rescue to get a tax write off & other perks (free animals, & other donations) that just turn around & sell the animals entrusted to them, keep the donated money, or like in this case, use the animals as feeders.

Never take anyone's word for it that they're a "rescue". Check it out first...demand proof.

[Homebody]

I've been thinking about this and this is how I think this whole thing went down. The CEO or COO of the Humane Society of Southern Arizona (HSSA) realized that he could free up capacity in his shelter and make a few bucks at the same time. If it was the CEO, the COO went along with it to keep his job. If it was the COO, he did it behind his boss's back. After he sold off the stock from his own shelter, he contacted San Diego to get more. San Diego was so happy to be rid of them that they didn't ask questions.

Unfortunately, for the HSSA plotter(s), San Diego held a big old media event announcing the transfer. Had to make sure their donors knew what a good job they're doing. So, when the animals never showed up in Arizona, people noticed and started asking questions. This pressure caused the HSSA board to get involved.

This wasn't a plot built to weather scrutiny. At first, the plotter(s) lied and said they sent the animals to a private shelter. When they couldn't produce any paperwork supporting this, the board demanded they get the animals back. The Jones brothers then returned the 62 animals they hadn't managed to euthanize. This satisfied no one. A little more digging and it became clear exactly what had happened, and the CEO and COO lost their jobs.

I'm sure the Jones brothers knew what they were doing wasn't above board, but I think HSSA is the bad guy here. The Jones brothers were struggling to get their business off the ground. They just couldn't say no to a cheap feeder supply. They also may have told themselves that it was a victimless crime. They were only making use of animals no one else wanted. The HSSA plotter(s) on the other hand were entrusted with finding homes for these animals and instead sold them as food. Fearing a lawsuit, the HSSA board continues to deny culpability. Their denials ring hollow though, and I'm sure that, if there is legal action, the truth will come out and they'll be forced to pay.

[Armiyana]

There is absolutely no reason a reptile company should exist on using shelter animals as feeders. If they can't afford it or want to use shelter animals to turn a quick buck at a reptile show, they absolutely should not be in business. They deserve as little sympathy as you have for the Arizona shelter staff.

I couldn't afford to buy frozen rats when my collection grew past 14 last year. I didn't start skimming craigslist and the local shelters for handouts. I started breeding my own feeders.


I haven't seen all the updates and digging into things as again... I was recovering from surgery. Last week when this broke all we knew about was fertile turtle. Now that the rest of the info is falling into place, the shelter deserves just as much scrutiny and anger for their part. But trying to say the brothers were just looking for a way to get business started? It makes you sound like you agree with the practice

[Homebody]

But trying to say the brothers were just looking for a way to get business started? It makes you sound like you agree with the practice

I was kind of afraid my post sounded like that. While I believe the HSSA plotter(s) were worse, the reptile breeders are definitely a sketchy bunch. And, as you know better than I, reptile breeders live and die by their reputations. I wouldn't trust these guys and I wouldn't buy from them. and I would expect anybody else that cares about the business to do the same. If as a result of this case, the Fertile Turtle goes under. I'll send up a cheer.

[Homebody]

While we're assigning blame, why did San Diego, a no kill shelter, send animals to Tucson, a kill shelter? Did they really expect that a smaller shelter would be able to adopt out animals that they couldn't? Or did they send them for Tucson to do their dirty work for them? Is that how San Diego manages to keep its no kill policy? By sending its excess capacity to kill shelters? Wouldn't that be scandalous?

[Armiyana]

It's becoming fairly commonplace for places to network out with other shelters and rescues when dealing with adoptions. I actually had 3 kittens I fostered shipped from CA to WA for adoption. Shelters are just flooded where I am in Orange County. Even finding a rescue to help me out with these guys had taken me 3 weeks.

San Diego was probably working on the assumption that things had been on the up and up in AZ. There was no real reason to assume otherwise until they started questioning why rabbits were not updated in the microchip database after being 'adopted' in AZ.
If they do more digging and find some fault in SD, CA then I hope they are also held accountable.

As far as 'assigning blame': Anyone involved in this this knowing the animals were to be given off as reptile food should absolutely be held accountable. No ifs ands or buts. It's not rocket science there. Investigations should continue and policy should be scrutinized.

The sad reality of animal shelters is that we are leaving a majority of those animals there to die. Full stop.
Regardless of if it's a no kill shelter or high risk shelter. Many are operating at a capacity that they can barely handle because people just suck that much. I've worked with a few amazing people in animal rescue... it's a thankless job that weighs horribly on you. Physically, mentally and monetarily. If there's a glimmer of hope that someone can help you, many would jump at the opportunity. This county has absolutely terrible standards when it comes to animal welfare. There needs to be a rework of the system and more funding than there is... But we can't even do that for homeless people most of the time.


Honestly though Homebody... Your postings are also just not gelling with me and I don't want to think less of you because of this. Up until this post I've respected many of your posts here. Saying what you did about business starting and now conspiracy theory for shelters just puts a sour taste in my mouth...and that's what my surgery was supposed to prevent. Lol.
So this is going to be the last I'm commenting on this.

[Homebody]

Honestly though Homebody... Your postings are also just not gelling with me and I don't want to think less of you because of this. Up until this post I've respected many of your posts here. Saying what you did about business starting and now conspiracy theory for shelters just puts a sour taste in my mouth...and that's what my surgery was supposed to prevent. Lol.
So this is going to be the last I'm commenting on this.

Aw, don't be like that. I don't know a thing about the animal shelter system. I'm postulating and asking questions in a discussion that I hope will edify everyone, including me.

[Bogertophis]

While we're assigning blame, why did San Diego, a no kill shelter, send animals to Tucson, a kill shelter? Did they really expect that a smaller shelter would be able to adopt out animals that they couldn't? Or did they send them for Tucson to do their dirty work for them? Is that how San Diego manages to keep its no kill policy? By sending its excess capacity to kill shelters? Wouldn't that be scandalous?

In the world of pet shelters & rescues, it's not unheard of for shelters with too many animals to ship (drive) them to another area where "neuter & spay" policies have actually gotten the desired results & there's actually too few pets available for adoption. That's a good thing, but it's still very costly & hard to find volunteers willing & able to do the transporting. I've even heard of a program where pilots volunteer to fly pets to remote areas to get the dogs homes where they're wanted & needed. It's great when it works. I know they've flown dogs from very crowded kill shelters in Los Angeles to states in the northwest, but obviously this is a slow process- it's normally a small privately-owned plane so they can only take so many at a time.

While we're discussing shelter issues (& specifically, doing the dirty work for others), I have to say that while I love the idea of a "no-kill" shelter as much as all animal lovers do (& our local shelter is a "no-kill" too), it's an idea that's both good & bad for the animals housed there. In reality, most of the shelter space is taken up by large & less-adoptable dogs (especially pit bulls & pit-mixes) which many adopters cannot or will never adopt. When you have a long waiting list for unwanted dogs to be accepted into the only shelter around, that means that many dogs that are very adoptable get no help, & as a result, many desperate people just dump them- or worse.

Meanwhile, unwanted dogs sit in the shelter way too long, & develop personality issues that make it much harder for them to ever adapt to a home. All dogs need training & socializing- it's hard to achieve that even in the best of shelters, & the problems they come in with often just get worse. So while I can't imagine ever working in a "kill" shelter (& the only ones I've ever visited left me in tears & haunted by the sad state of so many loving animals) I think we also have to consider the quality of life issues for the long-term un-adopted residents...is that fair? wouldn't euthanasia be kinder? (I often think it would be kinder.) & in the long run, that would help get homes for the more adoptable ones that otherwise are turned away. Basically I'm saying that the "kill" shelters are actually doing the dirty work for the "no-kill" shelters. In a way, "no-kill" shelters make the problems worse, but people feel better about it because they don't see the big picture.

It's a nasty situation brought about by humans breeding too many pets- either on purpose or by neglect, or a desire to sell or merely enjoy pups & kittens for a while, while ignoring the reality of overpopulation. It bears mentioning that BPs run the risk of a similar situation- not enough homes with the skills, time, money, & dedication to take good care of them for life. Please think about that before you breed them.

[Homebody]

The Humane Society of Southern Arizona (HSSA) released its report on this incident. It can be found here (34 pp). In a nutshell, under pressure from the Board and the CEO to raise adoption numbers, the CPO agreed to accept a transfer of animals from the San Diego Humane Society (SDHS) that was too large (300+) for HSSA to handle. The CPO solved this problem by diverting the animals to the Jones brothers, unaware that they have a business selling reptile feeders. When the SDHS and others inquired about the status of the animals, the Jones brothers returned 62. The report contains a lot of specific information that wasn't in the news articles, so if you're interested in this case, it's definitely a read.

[Malum Argenteum]

Thanks for posting that. It looks like, just as in so many situations where bad things happen, there's enough blame to go around.