(TW: written gore) Difficult BP + Horrifying Nightmares: What next?

[Bogertophis]

Smake has demonstrated great fear when exposed to tongs. I don't use them at all with him. I place the rat on a little "rock" dish that is on the hot side so it's not too cold. I've always placed the rat on something flat for him to take at his own pace. Mimicking life has also scared him in the past. I tried feeding him a live mouse in years past but he didn't take it and instead hid from it. He has always had little to no response to food. He has never struck at food and never coiled around food, only slowly taken meals inch by inch down his throat until he's done. It is an extraordinarily slow process for him. He used to stick his head out of his cave or roam around the tank, but that's never been a reliable indicator for me if he was ready to eat or not. I say "used to" because, since moving here, we no longer sleep in the same room, so I don't catch glimpses of him at 2-4am anymore when I wake up at night. I may go downstairs before bed tonight to see if he's up and out, but he generally gets active in the wee hours of morning when us diurnal folk are most quiet.

Is it possible you put way too much motion into wiggling the prey when trying to feed with tongs? Because that will scare many snakes (especially one that had bad experiences with live prey, maybe even before you got him?) if you don't do it just right. I find it hard to believe he's actually afraid of the tongs- snakes don't tend to notice such things at all. BPs rely on their heat sensing pits, so it's more likely he's afraid of your nearby hand (or specifically the heat signature) that's holding the tongs.

Also (when using tongs) never approach the snake with the prey. Instead make it appear to cluelessly pass by, just out of reach wherever the snake is hiding, & keep the motions very slight & subtle. In the wild, no rodent is going to approach a snake & volunteer to be eaten. Such bold activity does scare some snakes, especially shy BPs.

[smakemom]

I checked out this website, but the only vet I was able to track down from the search results is an hour away. That's the closest I could find. Other results were either equally far, farther, or appeared to have stopped practicing/are practicing elsewhere. Are there any other reputable vet finding sites? Thank you still for this resource.

edit: replied without quote. the website was https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661.

[smakemom]

Is it possible you put way too much motion into wiggling the prey when trying to feed with tongs? Because that will scare many snakes (especially one that had bad experiences with live prey, maybe even before you got him?) if you don't do it just right. I find it hard to believe he's actually afraid of the tongs- snakes don't tend to notice such things at all. BPs rely on their heat sensing pits, so it's more likely he's afraid of your nearby hand (or specifically the heat signature) that's holding the tongs.

Also (when using tongs) never approach the snake with the prey. Instead make it appear to cluelessly pass by, just out of reach wherever the snake is hiding, & keep the motions very slight & subtle. In the wild, no rodent is going to approach a snake & volunteer to be eaten. Such bold activity does scare some snakes, especially shy BPs.

I'll try it, but I'm not optimistic. I haven't tried using tongs again in the last couple years since I used to have success without them, but I'll give it another whirl.

[Bogertophis]

Also, when BPs stick their head out of the hide (at night), that's when you should try feeding them: they're ambush hunters, they don't normally pursue the prey, they just grab what goes by from the shadows they're hiding in, so try to imitate that.

A BP that's roaming the tank will NOT be likely to eat- they don't like to eat when out in the open like that, because other predators can easily get them if they're slowed down with their own meal. See?

[Homebody]

I checked out this website, but the only vet I was able to track down from the search results is an hour away. That's the closest I could find. Other results were either equally far, farther, or appeared to have stopped practicing/are practicing elsewhere. Are there any other reputable vet finding sites? Thank you still for this resource.

edit: replied without quote. the website was https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661.

An hour trip is worth it for a good vet. For me, that's my daily commute. Hopefully, you won't have to make the trip very often. But I wouldn't rush to the vet right. For the time being, I think your bp needs to be left alone.

[mistergreen]

Is it possible you put way too much motion into wiggling the prey when trying to feed with tongs? Because that will scare many snakes (especially one that had bad experiences with live prey, maybe even before you got him?) if you don't do it just right. I find it hard to believe he's actually afraid of the tongs- snakes don't tend to notice such things at all. BPs rely on their heat sensing pits, so it's more likely he's afraid of your nearby hand (or specifically the heat signature) that's holding the tongs.

Also (when using tongs) never approach the snake with the prey. Instead make it appear to cluelessly pass by, just out of reach wherever the snake is hiding, & keep the motions very slight & subtle. In the wild, no rodent is going to approach a snake & volunteer to be eaten. Such bold activity does scare some snakes, especially shy BPs.

I'm no expert,but I wasgoing to recomend this action as well. Hold the rat around its rear end and simulate it casually walking along easily in front of your snake. Try and make it so your snake can grab it from its head first. I've been doing this with mine since I got him in June and he's pounced on every one. When he grabs it, give a little pull as if the rat is trying to escape.

[Caitlin]

I feel so badly for all of the stress you've gone through over this and how it has affected the way you feel about your snake and about keeping snakes in general.

What's frustrating is that I just don't think you and your snake needed to be put through all of this with the vet visits, force feeding, etc. I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that all that is needed here is time, patience on your part, and peace and quiet for your snake. Hang in there, TRY not to focus on whether the snake is eating or not, make sure enclosure parameters are correct and that your snake feels safe and secure (snug hides, quiet room, no handling for now), offer a warm meal every 10 days or so, and just wait.

[BeansTheDerp]

Okay here are two new things. One, I know that with my snake when he was in a tub instead of a glass enclosure he would seem to panic if I didn't check on him every day. I switched him to a glass enclosure because after I didn't check on him for a couple days (2 because then I had to change his water) he got out of his enclosure and I woke up to figure out that he had tried to climb up my (at the time) loft bed but couldn't make it and went underneath my bed to wait. I switched him to a glass front opening enclosure and now he is still very clingy and often comes out to watch me pace in my room (something I do often to stim). So maybe Smake is the same way and not being in a room with you is messing with him? As if it's something he isn't used to. Another thing, could the fact that he doesn't have his branch anymore be bothering him? Like a lack of enrichment for him to explore? Bp's are semiarboreal and some enjoy climbing more than others, my snake is one of them and from the picture I think Smake is as well. I would say if you aren't sure if not being in the same room as you is bothering him then at least give him his branch to see if it makes a difference at all.

[BeansTheDerp]

@smakemom

https://youtu.be/KsNYMIlKadc?si=bhnf3cNK31FqlFea

This video might help you! This guy is also pretty funny and goofy.

[Bogertophis]

@smakemom

https://youtu.be/KsNYMIlKadc?si=bhnf3cNK31FqlFea

This video might help you! This guy is also pretty funny and goofy.

Yeah, I don't think we have to worry about BPs "eating villagers"- I've never heard of putting a drop of vanilla on a rodent's head to promote feeding- Likewise for "ASF cologne"-