Hello! An Introduction & Requesting Some Advice

[Ian C]

Hello all, very happy to have found this forum.

My name is Ian. I've loved reptiles my entire life, and owned several many years ago (curlytails, iguanas, even a caiman when it was legal to do so). Never managed to have a snake though, as first my mother and later my wife absolutely refused to allow it. That finally changed when my daughter, who has been asking for one for 5 years and is adamant she will become a herpetologist when she gets older, was finally given one for her 13th birthday 2 weeks ago.

We got a 5 month old female ball python my daughter has named Hydra. I did tons of reading before we bought her, as I want to make sure we provide the best possible life for our new family member. We got her from a reptile specialty store (The Reptile Store in Hamilton, ON, Canada) rather than a chain pet store, as I had questions about how their care would be in the bigger stores. Yes, the 40 gallon terrarium at 36" x 18" x 18" is too large for her at this point, but I am hoping we have given her enough hides and foliage to make up for it. There's a large rock cave on the hot side, a skull she can crawl into on the cold side, and a little coconut hut in the middle, plus lots of plastic foliage without going overboard. We're using ReptiBark as the substrate. We started off with just a 15" x 10.5" heating mat under the hot side and a 50W bulb to heat it, but the substrate only feels mildly warm and the air temperature never went above 28C (82F), with the cold side being around 24C (75F). With that setup, the humidity was at around 53%, not bad, but could be slightly higher. At night we turned off the light and I didn't like the temperature dropping to around 23C (73F). We have since added a 100W ceramic heat emitter for the hot side and moved the 50W bulb to the cold side, which is much better. The hot side now sits between 32-34C (89-93F) and the cold stays around 26C (79F), with a small drop of a couple of degrees at night when we shut off the light.

The problem is the increased temperature has dropped the humidity to around 44%. We mist it with a spray bottle, saturating the substrate, but while it will rise to 80% or more, it drops right back down after 15 minutes or so. I don't want to continue this way for fear of mold, scale rot, respiratory infections, etc.

I could try to place plexiglass over the front half of the screen cover but don't want to mess up air circulation and not sure if would have much of an effect as we cover 3/4 of the tank at night with a cloth and the humidity only goes up to about 47%. I'm considering something like the Zoo Med Waterfall, but not sure if they will do much either. I'm reading everything from they fix humidity issues to they have no effect. I'm also concerned that a waterfall can either be a risk of her climbing inside and getting stuck, or the rock/wood design can be too rough on her scales. I want to get this resolved before her first shedding. Any advice?

For reference, she seems really well adjusted to her new home. She did curl into a ball when we first brought her home, and after briefly exploring her new enclosure she stayed hidden for the first week or so, but we left her to adjust undisturbed for 10 days. After the first 7 days she started exploring more, so we decided to try and feed her on Day 10 (last Friday). As per the store, she is used to frozen rat pups, so that's what we gave her. We thawed it and warmed it in hot water, then used tongs to hold it in front of her. She started tracking it immediately, and within 20 seconds lunged at it. She ate it within 10 minutes, and we left her for 48 hours to digest it. Starting yesterday (Day 12), I took her out to give her some handling time. No stress reaction at all, she curled around my wrist after exploring my arm for a few minutes, and transferred to my daughter with no issues at all. She is slightly head shy and pulls away if you move too quickly near her head, but otherwise I don't get the impression she is scared or stressed at all.

If there's one unexpected behavior I see, she seems to prefer the cold side. She will go into the cave on the hot side when we first place her in her home, but soon leaves the cave and heat pad and curls up under the more exposed skull on the cold side. Any ideas on why she'd choose that side?

I've added some pics of our setup and the digital temperature/humidity readouts (plus a pic of our girl herself ). Anyone have any suggestions to improve the setup?

Thanks for reading and having me here.

Ian

[Bogertophis]

We're happy to have you join us- welcome!

Before I forget- be careful about using any decorations like a "skull" or driftwood that has holes your snake can (& likely will) get stuck in. The materials they're made of are very difficult to cut, making that very dangerous for your snake, should you ever have to cut it away to free him from it. Remember that with a meal, your snake's "waistline" will expand, & snakes don't think about these things at all- their overlapping directional scales make it very difficult for snakes to back out of such things. Sadly, wild snakes get stuck the same way & often die of exposure (or being helpless when found by a predator) when they get stuck trying to go thru man-made things such as bird netting & some types of fencing (like chicken wire).

I think you should lose a couple degrees on both warm & cool sides- best to stay under 90* F. & above 77* F. And double-check all surface temperatures (like in that cave).

The only way you'll get enough humidity with such a warm enclosure, even with a substrate that holds humidity, is by restricting air flow. Sorry, but air goes right through cloth of any kind, & even a damp towel won't work, since the warm air is rising up & away, not going downward (into) your snake's home. And misting is not the best either- too much fluctuation, not very effective & it's disruptive to the snake. I'd suggest covering most of the screen with plexi or other material that air cannot go thru- leaving only a few small vent areas (for example- one lower, on the cool side, will draw air in, & one higher on the warm side, will vent the air up & out.) The only other thing is providing a humid hide (like with very damp sphagnum moss- you'll need to re-moisten it periodically). You may need to do both, especially when your snake is in shed.

I would not recommend a waterfall at all- that's too much moisture- and besides, snakes usually think of more unsafe things to try than we do.

BPs do best with just ambient room lighting also- overhead lights are stressful for most snakes- & BPs are active at night mostly- they're not into bright lights at all. So using CHEs or other options for overhead warmth are best- even though it looks real nice with that light on, your snake isn't loving it. Dim lights are best & only when really needed.

[Ian C]

Thank you so much!

Terrific advice. The temps seemed to be within the ranges I have read so I hadn't bothered to install the thermostat I bought. At least this should be a relatively easy fix, since I'm not lacking heat, just need the thermostat to control it slightly better. I'll keep my CHE on the hot side in place, and switch out the 50W bulb for an equivalent CHE on that side. I thought the light would be fine during the day, but I definitely don't want to stress her out. Looks like I need to invest in a laser thermometer to check those hide temps though.

I should mention, the sensors for the thermometers are suspended 3-5" above the substrate. I assume that's a fair spot to place them to get an accurate ambient air temp?

As for the humidity, I'll take both suggestions. I'll get some plexiglass cut to completely cover the front half screen sections, and some smaller pieces to partially cover the back half sections by the heat lamps. I have no experience with sphagnum moss. How do you attach it to the inside of the cave, and to moisten it is spraying it with the bottle sufficient? Hopefully these two changes will raise the humidity. I'm hoping to keep it around 60%, slightly higher when she starts shedding.

Looks like my concerns about a waterfall were valid. Thanks for confirming that, so I won't bother with it. Oh, and I'll remove that skull and replace it with something more fitting as well.

Everything else seems good?

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.

Ian

[Armiyana]

Congrats on your new noodle!
I'm glad she's already settling in so well for you.

I agree with Bogertophis on temps and monitoring the decor for any holes she can get stuck in as she grows. I've had to try getting some baby corns out of a fake tree log once when someone at the big box store I worked put the wrong decor in the reptile habitat while I was gone. =_=;

She's probably warming up to where she needs and then moving away from the heat to the more comfy hide. BPs are very shy so something about that spot makes her feel secure enough and is a better temp for her. If you bump the temps down a bit she may stay on the warm side more.

Humidity is tricky. Covering the top will help for sure. So will the moss. The thing about misting is that it is such a light coverage that it will dry quickly. What you would want to do is carefully pour a bit of water around the substrate and stir it a bit so the deeper layers can soak a bit more in and retain while the top layer gets dried out. It's very easy to oversaturate though so you would want to do a little then check back later if you need to add more.

Also, double check the heated hide just in case with a good temp gun. Sometimes probes won't read quite right...and you want to make sure the glass above the pad isn't too hot, that way if she burrows down into the perfect temp top of the bedding she won't burn herself on the warmer glass under it.

[Ian C]

Thank you.

I have just ordered a laser thermometer, moss, and new CHE bulb and should have them all tomorrow. Will be getting plexiglass tomorrow as well.

Last question for now. With the heating pad, is it safe to add water down near glass level?

I really appreciate the advice!

Ian

[bcr229]

Last question for now. With the heating pad, is it safe to add water down near glass level?

Yes. Remember the heat pad needs to be regulated by a thermostat so the glass over it never gets above 92-93*F. So, cool tap water running over it won't crack the glass.

[Homebody]

Thank you.

I have just ordered a laser thermometer, moss, and new CHE bulb and should have them all tomorrow. Will be getting plexiglass tomorrow as well.

Last question for now. With the heating pad, is it safe to add water down near glass level?

I really appreciate the advice!

Ian

If all that fails, you may want to consider an Exoterra replacement top from Focus Cubed habitats with an RHP attached. In theory (I haven't used them), the top should hold moisture better, and the RHP won't dry out your enclosure the way I've heard bulbs and CHEs can. It'll look nicer too.

[Bogertophis]

The use of a thermostat to control heating devices is truly essential because snakes* don't always know enough to move away in time from excessive heat. (*especially BPs, because they require more warmth but are also heavy-bodied snakes- by the time it dawns on them that part of their body is too hot, they can have a thermal burn, or they can sustain irreversible nerve damage if it continues)

You always want to measure the surface temperatures where the snake may touch- it's best to assume your snake WILL push the substrate away & be in contact right over a UTH also. (UTH = "under tank heat") Yes, it's time to make friends with a "temp. gun" & t-stats. Your sensor just to measure ambient air temperature is fine, but you need to know the surface temps. for safety. And probes from a thermostat don't belong inside the tank because sooner or later, your snake will dislodge them or splash water on them, making the reading unreliable (dangerous surface heat can result!). The probe should be sandwiched outside, underneath- between the glass & the heat pad (aka UTH)- then, you need to verify what heat is being produced INSIDE, over the UTH with your temp. gun- where the snake can contact. Never assume that whatever the t-stat is set to is what you have inside the enclosure- use that temp. gun & keep using it for as long as it takes for the readings to stabilize. See?

About that heat pad- it's outside (under) the terrarium, right? Never inside where contact with water will happen & a shock will result- I'm just making sure, since you asked. As you've discovered, it takes a while for heat from UTH to penetrate & raise the temperatures inside your set-up. It takes days, actually, for all the substrate & furnishings to gradually warm up- that's why we advise that you set up a new home for a snake (with all the "trimmings") for at least a week while controlled by a thermostat, before a snake moves in, for safety. Otherwise, if this is rushed (as is very common, let's be honest- we've all "been there"- excited to welcome our new pets) -if this is rushed, & you're not using a thermostat, or using it incorrectly (where the probe is matters greatly), you can end up with excessive (ie. dangerous) surface temperatures for your snake, including inside their hides where a shy new snake is most likely to want to be.

As far as adding water over the UTH- you'll be trickling it in so it absorbs into the substrate- that will slow it down anyway- so yes, it should be safe for the glass. (Glass is normally tempered glass, & assuming it's not greatly overheated anyway, it's just fine.) I've been using glass tanks with UTH for decades & never cracked one yet.

Humid hide: What many of us do is use a large plastic food container (the kind with snap on lids) with an entry hole cut into the top. Put soaked & drained moss into it- about half full so there's room for your snake too- & put the lid on. You can either "show your snake the door" (so to speak) or let him find it on his own. When snakes feel safe to move around more (often at night, when you're not looking), their nose will lead them to that wonderful aroma of fresh moist moss & you'll find him in there- snakes love this stuff, even when they're not in shed. Granted, the container isn't so pretty- if that bothers you, you'll find ways to camouflage it- but you'll have a happy snake. They seek hides that make them feel safe & snug- not too high or "open", only one door (not too big)- & they like "back pressure" so they know a predator can't sneak up on them. If hides are initially too big (with room to grow into them) you can always wad up a paper towel (etc.) to take up some of the extra space inside it & make it feel cozy to your pet.

Pet stores sell lots of cool looking decor (skulls are very popular) & since it makes them money, they probably always will. But skulls & "castles" (etc) are best used for tropical fish- they don't get stuck. I discovered that some of those things even have very sharp unfinished edges left inside, so if a snake instinctively snugs into one, they can get cut up- and I KNOW you don't want that.

With snake-keeping- get used to taking temperatures. Remember that we're about 98* so water or surfaces don't feel warm to us until they're OVER that, which is too hot for your snake. See? Ya gotta use that temp gun & consider what your snake is experiencing. This all gets easier with practice- if anything doesn't make sense, just ask.

[Caitlin]

- - - Updated - - -

If all that fails, you may want to consider an Exoterra replacement top from Focus Cubed habitats with an RHP attached. In theory (I haven't used them), the top should hold moisture better, and the RHP won't dry out your enclosure the way I've heard bulbs and CHEs can. It'll look nicer too.

I just want to co-sign these suggestions. If you are using an Exo-terra enclosure (sorry, I can't tell from the photos if it's Exo-terra or Zilla), the PVC replacement tops made by Focus Cubed are really excellent. The solid PVC top will help so much with maintaining temps and humidity. You can have them install a circular screen on one side of the PVC top so that you can place your heating element.

I know you just ordered a CHE but want to add that, as Homebody mentions, a deep heat projector or DHP is much easier on humidity than a CHE. With a DHP you likely won't even need to bother with a UTH - the DHP will warm the surrounding air AND penetrate surfaces in a way that allows you to use something like a piece of flat slate or a couple of flat rocks to absorb and then reflect warmth for your snake in a way that is more like what they'd experience with the warmth of the sun.

I know a couple of folks have mentioned this already but I'm repeating it because it's important: are you using a thermostat on your heating elements (bulbs/mat) to regulate temperatures? If not, we can recommend some good and budget-friendly options on Amazon. There are also excellent high-end thermostats you might want to consider later when you move this snake into their 'forever' adult enclosure, but for now there are some good budget-friendly options available.

[Armiyana]

Unregulated heat pads will reach temps like 110-130F. Even worse if the tank isn't raised up for airflow and WILL crack the glass regardless of adding water or not. And is absolutely too dangerous for a ball python.

A regulated on thermostat heat pad will be fine as stated above.