If I had known 3 years ago...

[Snagrio]

Both of you point to one of the problems with pets that become too "available" & seen everywhere- after a while, no matter how beautiful & appealing they may be, many people crave something "else"- something more unique, something other than what "everyone else has". In fact that's one of the secrets of avoiding "impulse buys" is to force a "cooling off" period; sometimes you find another option, or just find you don't need "one of those" at all. I'm a lover of variety myself- I've always thought BPs are beautiful, but they're just not my thing, & I say that after having had some many years ago. There's a lot more to snakes than just their appearance, & it honestly makes me sad that so many cool snakes are overlooked because BPs are just about the only snakes that people see & hear about.

Which kind of in and of itself a problem, that BPs are just absolutely everywhere as I've pointed out in the past. They outnumber nearly any other species available 10 to 1, to the point where many people outright aren't aware of other species because BPs take up so much advertising space. Go to any given show and they take up half the vendor tables for example.

[bcr229]

Which kind of in and of itself a problem, that BPs are just absolutely everywhere as I've pointed out in the past. They outnumber nearly any other species available 10 to 1, to the point where many people outright aren't aware of other species because BPs take up so much advertising space. Go to any given show and they take up half the vendor tables for example.

BP's have been everywhere for a very long time now, which isn't surprising as they breed at a relatively young age, they are easy to breed, and you can keep quite a few in a small space. Boas take longer to mature and get bigger so you don't see as many. Savu pythons are rarely, if ever, seen because females don't mature until 5-6 years old and they have small clutches, so no one intending to breed for quick $ wanted to wait that long.

[nikkubus]

BP's have been everywhere for a very long time now, which isn't surprising as they breed at a relatively young age, they are easy to breed, and you can keep quite a few in a small space. Boas take longer to mature and get bigger so you don't see as many. Savu pythons are rarely, if ever, seen because females don't mature until 5-6 years old and they have small clutches, so no one intending to breed for quick $ wanted to wait that long.

I feel like I remember a time period where both boas and corn snakes were the top "in" thing and then they got to be so heavily oversaturated in the market that a huge change happened and people quit breeding them. I think what makes BPs different and why people haven't backed out the way they did with boas and corn snakes has a lot to do with how many morphs are incomplete dominant, therefore have an incredibly fast turnaround time breeding and combining. I can't think of any other species, even outside reptiles, that has so many. This drags so many new people into breeding in a way that just doesn't happen in other species, and we have a flow of new breeders that seems to sustain the market well enough for established breeders to keep breeding in huge numbers. The new breeder burnout is still a serious issue though, and the market has so many animals people simply do not have the reach to get their animals sold. Morph Market alleviated this to a small extent, but it's still a huge problem, and why I'm glad that at least people on this forum are fast to warn new people about. I'm always wondering when it's going to hit that point where it collapses the way of the boas and corns. I really wish people would take it slow and work their way up instead of jump in head first.

[Snagrio]

I feel like I remember a time period where both boas and corn snakes were the top "in" thing and then they got to be so heavily oversaturated in the market that a huge change happened and people quit breeding them. I think what makes BPs different and why people haven't backed out the way they did with boas and corn snakes has a lot to do with how many morphs are incomplete dominant, therefore have an incredibly fast turnaround time breeding and combining. I can't think of any other species, even outside reptiles, that has so many. This drags so many new people into breeding in a way that just doesn't happen in other species, and we have a flow of new breeders that seems to sustain the market well enough for established breeders to keep breeding in huge numbers. The new breeder burnout is still a serious issue though, and the market has so many animals people simply do not have the reach to get their animals sold. Morph Market alleviated this to a small extent, but it's still a huge problem, and why I'm glad that at least people on this forum are fast to warn new people about. I'm always wondering when it's going to hit that point where it collapses the way of the boas and corns. I really wish people would take it slow and work their way up instead of jump in head first.

The whole thing feels like some kind of pseudo pyramid scheme by now. A bunch of newbies come in to try and get in on the game, often struggling to sell because the market is so extremely flooded and inevitably burning out, while a small subset of breeders at the top are the ones that can afford to make and pass around the latest high-end morphs to keep the whole thing going (really that's the main thing staving off a crash, the fact that more morphs and combos are constantly coming out).

And in the midst of it all is a massive fallout of BPs unable to find homes. Normals are so common now that you can practically get them for free after a little digging. I've heard of some vendors selling them explicitly as feeders for snake-eating species there's that many.

[Bogertophis]

...And in the midst of it all is a massive fallout of BPs unable to find homes. Normals are so common now that you can practically get them for free after a little digging. I've heard of some vendors selling them explicitly as feeders for snake-eating species there's that many.

I don't think it's any sort of "scheme" but it's a sad fact that established breeders with good reputations are going to have a big advantage when it comes to sales. Not only that but the first ones to produce unique morphs are the ones that are going to make the most money on them- & that does tend to be the experienced breeders that have been "in the game" for a while.

And the saturated market for BPs has been around for a while now- I've lost count of how many newbies come on forums like this, determined to breed their snakes no matter how much we try to caution them. It's just like all the back-yard breeders of dogs that keep right on filling up the humane shelters- it's beyond sad, as far as I'm concerned, but far too many just don't listen. In their minds, they stand to make money by breeding their snakes- they most likely overpaid for what they have, & assume that anything they produce will fetch similar ("retail") prices, but it doesn't work that way- & especially when they don't even know what they're doing. They also fail to factor in all the COSTS, & usually have no clue about a business plan. And yes, some BPs end up as "feeders"....that's reality. Breeding & selling snakes is a very hard way to make a living- mostly, it's a "don't quit your day job" kind of thing.

[Snagrio]

I don't think it's any sort of "scheme" but it's a sad fact that established breeders with good reputations are going to have a big advantage when it comes to sales. Not only that but the first ones to produce unique morphs are the ones that are going to make the most money on them- & that does tend to be the experienced breeders that have been "in the game" for a while.

And the saturated market for BPs has been around for a while now- I've lost count of how many newbies come on forums like this, determined to breed their snakes no matter how much we try to caution them. It's just like all the back-yard breeders of dogs that keep right on filling up the humane shelters- it's beyond sad, as far as I'm concerned, but far too many just don't listen. In their minds, they stand to make money by breeding their snakes- they most likely overpaid for what they have, & assume that anything they produce will fetch similar ("retail") prices, but it doesn't work that way- & especially when they don't even know what they're doing. They also fail to factor in all the COSTS, & usually have no clue about a business plan. And yes, some BPs end up as "feeders"....that's reality. Breeding & selling snakes is a very hard way to make a living- mostly, it's a "don't quit your day job" kind of thing.

I did say "pseudo" pyramid scheme.

And yes the BP scene has been huge for a while, but even just during the past 3 years that I've been aware of it you can't deny there's been a particular explosion. 2020 saw a lot more people entering the breeding circles and buyers as a whole (covid pets and all that). It really says something that despite everything else in life skyrocketing in price lately, including other aspects of the hobby (dear lord what happened with hognoses), BPs in general have only been continuously dropping in price.

[Bogertophis]

I think the pandemic has made this worse- more people looking for ways to make a living from home. And it's about "supply & demand"- when there's too much of something- ANYTHING- the prices they command goes down.