Cypress substrate and UTH

[Pilch]

Hey, new member and new snake owner here. I have a ball python that is living in a 40-gal tank enclosure. I just installed a UTH and noticed a warning on the pad that said it should not be used with cypress. I was wanting to move to cypress substrate (currently using Aspen), but that warning has me nervous. If the heating pad is under the tank with glass in between it and the substrate, IOW not in direct contact, is that okay? Or is there some kind of heat transfer or fire hazard problem with UTHs and cypress?

[Bogertophis]

I've never seen any such warning on UTH that specifically mentions the type of substrate NOT to use- what brand is the UTH? And what is the wattage? I've not tried all brands- I'm mostly a Flexwatt user but I've tried several others in the past. I've safely used Flexwatt for many snakes for decades- literally. That's not saying other brands aren't safe also.

I believe the warning has to do with flammability: https://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/ja/ja_zipperer003.pdf

As used for snakes, mulch seems a safe choice, especially with added humidity AND with glass interfacing, & I know of no one having a problem with it, OTHER than not enough heat rising thru the mulch when it's used too deeply. BUT: All UTH MUST be regulated with a thermostat (preferably) or a rheostat (may not work w/ all UTH) at the very minimum for SAFETY.

The most likely safety issue would be when people crank up the power to max out the UTH because not enough warmth is coming up thru the (too deep!) substrate. Then the heat builds up because deep substrate acts as an insulator- and your UTH can overheat & fail, or I suppose the excess heat could combust substrate? -but again, I've personally never heard of that happening-

Even more flammable than mulch is probably the paper shreds I use (over controlled UTH) & have used for decades... But paper shreds (usually mixed w/ Carefresh) have LOTS of air spaces thru which the heat rises. They just aren't good for snakes that need retained humidity, like BPs, which I don't keep.

Companies just don't want to be sued- it's like putting the warning on that hot cup of coffee, after being ridiculously sued by a clumsy patron spilling hot coffee on themselves. It's a common sense thing. Many things have such warnings nowadays- like "don't let your children eat the laundry detergent pods" & "don't slice your hand off with this meat slicer", etc.

[Bogertophis]

By the way... And plus one for asking a good question & not ignoring safety warnings. That's why we're here- to help you sort things out.

[Pilch]

By the way... And plus one for asking a good question & not ignoring safety warnings. That's why we're here- to help you sort things out.

Thanks for the input... the last thing I want to do is cook my little buddy . I ordered the UTH off of Amazon, so it's kind of a knock-off brand, "Aiicoioo." 24 W, and yes, I definitely got the thermostat/regulator. The warning is probably a CYA thing, I guess I will move forward with my plan to convert to cypress. We're going off topic a bit, but would you recommend blending the Aspen and cypress for a while, gradually shifting the mix to give the snake time to adjust?

[Bogertophis]

I don't think blending aspen (which has a drying effect) with cypress (which holds humidity) would matter much to your snake, OR be very "effective".

BUT- how long have you had this snake & is he eating for you? New snakes are often very sensitive (easily freaked out by even more changes) so if that's the case (he's new & not feeding yet), I'd avoid making changes right now. For a new snake, it's best to duplicate the conditions he had before (likely a smaller home, etc) & make changes gradually once you see how he's doing (eating?).

If this is a hatchling/young snake, a 40 gal. tank is usually overwhelming (too much open space) so do what you can to make it seem cozy for him. Warm & cool side hides, & plenty of other "cover". You can also cover the back & sides (of glass tank) to add privacy, or drape a towel over half the tank, etc.

Getting the temperatures right is critical to keeping a BP- be sure the temps. are correct.

And for future reference (& your success with keeping a snake) it's really ESSENTIAL that you set up AND test your enclosure/tank BEFORE a snake moves in to get the temps. correct. Otherwise your constant fussing with measuring the temperatures & getting it right can stress a new snake into NOT eating- which is a health concern that's best avoided. Trust me- snakes are shy & are already very nervous being in a new home with a scary giant (you) hanging around.

[Pilch]

I've had the snake about 6 weeks. He is not a baby, probably 4-5 years old and 2.5-3 ft long. I actually have him temporarily from my daughter who is prepping to move, but it's a multi-month process that just started recently. He was eating regularly before, but he has not eaten in probably 3 months or so (at least 2 months before he moved here). I attribute that to a) coming out of winter months, b) moving to a new home, and c) he shed recently. I try to feed him every 2-3 weeks. He's not showing any signs of illness or weight loss that I can tell, and he's pretty active at night or when I take him out of the tank to clean it. He has a pretty gentle disposition, not aggressive or jumpy, likes to climb my arms and shoulders. I'm just trying to be patient. So maybe substrate change is not a good idea right now.

I've actually had trouble getting the temps up with the IR lamps that came with the tank (the whole rig was put together by my daughter), which is why I put the heating pad in. I've got things adjusted where the surface temps on the warm side measure around 90-92 (I got an IR laser thermometer), and the cool side is right around 80 but dips to 77-ish at the very far end, like the last inch or two of the tank. There's a thermometer as part of the humidifier that measures ambient temps right around 80 on the warm side. There was a bit of trial and error over the last week where temps were all over the place-- the combination of lamp placement and UTH thermostat settings were all over the place from hi 70s to hi 90s, but I think I have it dialed in (ended up having to turn one of the lamps off entirely). I'm sure he was not happy about the temperature swings, but I think we're stable now for the last few days.

Oh, and there are both warm and cool side hides for him, water dish is on the cool side.

Really appreciate your guidance! This is what I was hoping for joining this forum.

[Bogertophis]

I'm glad he's not a "baby"- he should adapt better, & also the 40 gal. tank won't seem quite so cavernous to him - but do keep in mind that even for adult snakes, new enclosures are disorienting. His fasting probably was due to winter, &/or maybe his home was also too cool even before he came to live with you.

You probably know (but in case you don't) the best time to offer food to a BP is evening/night hours- when they're normally active. Also bear in mind they're "ambush predators", so many have more success feeding their BPs when they're peeking out of their hide in the evening hours- as that's their normal way of "hunting"- not actively searching the way some other snakes do. They like to feel "safe" with nothing sneaking up on them, so looking out of their hiding place for passing prey is the way they stay safe from other things that would happily prey on them. It's usually a waste of time, effort & prey to offer their meals when the snake is actively cruising their home.

Also, never handle a snake before feeding them because it's slightly intimidating to them* & may ruin their appetite. *Think of it this way- the only thing that picks up a snake in the wild is a predator about to eat them. And even when they're captive pets, they still rely on their instincts.

This snake "should" be eating about every 2 weeks (assuming he's of normal weight- not underweight) & I commend you for only offering every 2-3 weeks- offering too often just stresses them out & makes them more likely to refuse. Try not to worry too much- they're quite good at fasting- be patient.

One reason (besides winter) that BPs may fast, especially male BPs, is that when they do eat, they're being fed prey that's too large- so it takes longer for them to want to eat again. Most find that adult male BPs do best on small rats (or mice of equivalent size/weight). Quite a few find their BPs fasting more when they've been fed too much (medium rats or larger). The female BPs will eat more than males (they also grow larger), & may be fine on medium rats, but male BPs stay smaller.

[Pilch]

@Bogertophis: Just a quick update to let you know my snake finally broke his fast last week! I'll feed him again next week and see how it goes, hopefully things have stabilized for him. Although I am finding that the combination of the IR lamp and the heating pad is getting to be too much (surface temps of 93 - 96 degrees on hot end) as the spring weather warms things up. Turning off the pad drops things back to low 90s. I think I may leave the UTH off for the summer if things stay stable. As always, thanks for your input.

[Bogertophis]

You need to keep temps. at or BELOW 90*- hotter can cause thermal burns, then nerve damage to your snake, & ultimately death. Doesn't sound like you're using a thermostat either? (it's very dangerous, if you're not)

Glad he's eating now at least.

[Pilch]

Hmm, I've seen other online sources that said 88-92 was okay for ball pythons, but I certainly don't want to quibble over a couple degrees. Are there any signs to look for if he's getting any kind of nerve damage? I am definitely using a thermostat, but even with the pad regulated, I think the increasing temps lately comes from the increased ambient temperature as the weather warms up + the IR lamp (which, btw, never seemed to get the hot end surface up to any more than 85 in the winter months until I added the UTH). The surface temps had been slowly creeping up the last several days, so I was adjusting the pad down a degree or two at a time, but even with the thermostat set to 75 it was hovering in the low 90s, so I just turned it off, and now it's back down to around 90, give or take a degree.