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Thread: Second Snake?

  1. #1
    Registered User D-.No's Avatar
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    Second Snake?

    https://youtu.be/5GPvgbnsecI

    Itís hard to explain my rational to non-herp lovers but Iím getting that itch.

    I have the spare furniture and set up. Iím going through the routine and processes of husbandry and general care. And wellÖ Iím also interested bringing in another reptilian personality into my world.

    I had all intentions of getting another snek when I got my BP but had plans on a jungle boa but Iím also considering another BP. There are lots of pros of dealing with the specifics of the same species obviously.

    I really donít intend in breeding unless it brings Ďjoyí or a more healthy longevity to my friends. Iíve had dogs and birds in my family that had adverse health issues (females) from not breeding. Plus who doesnít need/want a little action even if itís every couple of years- lol

    Any thoughts on reptiles? Should Roxy have a boyfriend or should just get the critter I want?

    FYI- Iím a total skittish wimp after a bite. Iíve never been bit by a boa and Iíve handled plenty but the word on the street is I will get bit raising one


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  2. #2
    Registered User Malum Argenteum's Avatar
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    I think a good argument can be made that every captive animal be allowed to breed. Reproduction is, evolutionarily, the most central behavior in the lives of animals (with the exception of some/many humans, and some other very socially complex species). If we think it necessary to allow a reptile to burrow/bask/hide/swim and do a wide range of behaviors it does in the wild, then even more so there's a reason to allow it to breed. I wish such an argument didn't exist, but it does.

    I think a much better argument can be made that there are way too many ball pythons in captivity currently. Once any species climbs to the top five of the 'most common species at reptile rescues' it is time to rethink hobby practices. Legitimate rescue and conservation organizations list euthanasia as one option if a person has a reptile pet they can't find a home or rescue to take it in, and the systemic cause of this is overproduction of a handful of species. The benefit to two BPs that are allowed to breed is outweighed by the possibility that their whole clutch will eventually be euthanized because no one wants them. All the BPs hatching right now are going to have to be cared for for, what, the next 30 years? And all the BPs that hatch out in those nest 30 years do too?

    I don't keep any B.c., but all the other boa species I keep (rosies, rough scales, rainbows) are really neat. Keeping a different species can actually help to understand the first species more, by comparison.

    You should get the critter you want.

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  4. #3
    Registered User YungRasputin's Avatar
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    the bet advice and my guiding principle when it comes to snakes and exotic animals in general is “keep what you love” - i do think there is some truth to the the argument that breeding is an essential part of life for non-human animals - anyone who has kept a mature male tarantula who will wander around looking for a mate until they literally die would agree lol but i don’t think that’s necessarily in every case but Malum brings up important and unfortunate points as well - to those points, and i would add that it seems like another key issue from my view is people who decided to try to make whole businesses with just BPs and thereby flooding the market with insane amounts of the same species when we’re talking about an animal with an extremely small clutch size - is p incredible really (you would think BPs would be more comparable to Angolans you know)

    but ultimately, even if you got a new BP nothing says you would *have* to breed it and i think from that standpoint, if you subtract the breeding from the equation outright then it really just comes back to what you personally would like to keep - so i would say, as you said, jungle boa

    i tots sympathize because i would v much like to breed my BP, i feel there should be space in those circles for showcasing pretty normals but still there are the issues Malum stated ��
    Last edited by YungRasputin; 03-17-2023 at 11:18 AM.
    het for nothing but groovy

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  6. #4
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    I would vote firmly against breeding any animals that are already massively overproduced (such as BPs- especially normal ones but even the fancy ones), because it just doesn't end well for all those cute little offspring- pets that are overproduced, whether cats, dogs or snakes, are devalued (ie. sold cheaply or given away) & when that happens, they often aren't respected & well cared-for- sadly, they're thought of by too many people as "throw-away toys".

    While it might be "natural" for our snakes to reproduce, it's also not essential for their well-being, & may even have negative health consequences. And that's apart from all the extra work of raising offspring- housing them, getting them to feed, & then worrying about where they'll end up.

    If you're wanting & ready for another critter, just get what you want without producing more in the process.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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    Registered User D-.No's Avatar
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    Re: Second Snake?

    Great advice. The thought of breeding two of my pets that I love and consider beautiful with unpredictable results seems exciting. But Iím not looking to see any animals that ever came from my Ďexperimentationsí have unhappy homes or short lives.

    Looks like Iím going to be Roxanneís only boyfriend from now on.


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  10. #6
    Registered User Animallover3541's Avatar
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    Re: Second Snake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    I would vote firmly against breeding any animals that are already massively overproduced (such as BPs- especially normal ones but even the fancy ones), because it just doesn't end well for all those cute little offspring- pets that are overproduced, whether cats, dogs or snakes, are devalued (ie. sold cheaply or given away) & when that happens, they often aren't respected & well cared-for- sadly, they're thought of by too many people as "throw-away toys".

    While it might be "natural" for our snakes to reproduce, it's also not essential for their well-being, & may even have negative health consequences. And that's apart from all the extra work of raising offspring- housing them, getting them to feed, & then worrying about where they'll end up.

    If you're wanting & ready for another critter, just get what you want without producing more in the process.
    Definitely! It's the same with all animals. For example, my rabbit came from a breeder who's litters are almost sold within the day she puts them up for sale, since angora's are wonderful show and fibe animals. However, hill-billy bob down the street who is over run with more New Zealand rabbit crosses than his family can eat will have a hard time selling them, and unfortunately I have seen many dumped rabbits. I've even seen rabbits from a borderline hoarder whose dog got ahold of the ridiculous amount of baby rabbits that she allowed to be born and couldn't house for feed.

    My boyfriend's ball python was a normal that came to him in a 20L tank with poop covered Care Fresh bedding, a single hide, a small water dish, and a heat lamp without a bulb. The people he got it from was his friend's sister and her husband who no longer could afford to feed it, and then they asked my boyfriend for $150 after the fact. Obviously, he didn't pay it because it was not initially agreed upon and he took in the snake knowing he would lose money. He no longer talks to them for a different reason than this but it made me so mad that someone who knew they could barely afford a pet got one and tried to manipulating us into feeling we were "stealing" for taking the animal off their hands so they could feed their family.

    And don't get me started on people breeding brachycephelic dogs, enigma leopard geckos or (in my opinion although I understand this is controversial) spider bps. I'm also not a big fan of small empty racks due to the studies I have seen regarding their affects on snake behavior and first hand comparisons of rack house vs terrarium housed animals. I know that topic though is also a controversial one as well though.

    Anyways, to make a long story short I think we need to realize that we have reached the point where we are over saturating the market to the point that it is hard for us to find good homes for all ball pythons, and should practice better management in our breeding efforts.
    1.0.0 Red Stripe BP (Noodle)
    0.1.0 T. d. elegans (Carole)
    0.1.0 Fawn English Angora Rabbit (Petunia)
    0.1.0 Domestic Cat (Winnie)

    "Life is better with a snake."


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  12. #7
    BPnet Veteran Caitlin's Avatar
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    Many rescues are refusing to take in surrendered Ball pythons because there are simply too many of them these days. While I totally understand the thought that breeding is in itself a powerful driver and an important part of any animal's natural range of experiences, I just can't bring myself to support the idea of breeding Ball pythons given the current situation in the hobby.

    Speaking just for myself, I have gotten a tremendous amount of enjoyment out of keeping a variety of snakes and experiencing the range of behaviors, appearance, temperament, and responsiveness to training. There's a whole world of wonderful snakes being produced in captivity, and you have some wonderful options if you want to add another pet to your family.
    1.0 Jungle Carpet Python 'Ziggy'
    1.0 Bredl's Python 'Calcifer'
    0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa 'Mara'
    1.1 Tarahumara Mountain Boas 'Paco' and 'Frida'
    2.0 Dumeril's Boas 'Gyre' and 'Titan'
    1.0 Stimson's Python 'Jake'
    1.1 Children's Pythons 'Miso' and 'Ozzy'
    1.0 Anthill Python 'Cricket'
    1.0 Plains Hognose 'Peanut'
    1.1 Rough-scaled Sand Boas 'Rassi' and 'Kala'
    1.0 Ball Python (BEL) 'Sugar'
    1.0 Gray-banded Kingsnake 'Nacho'
    1.0 Green Tree Python (Aru) 'Jade'

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