Not eating

[coryo]

Hey all, I've made posts here before generally asking about my BP not eating for a while.

He is a two, almost three year old that last ate on december 13th. In this time he's also shed. He's been acting completely normal the whole time, and the only difference is that in the couple feedings leading up he would only take it when the room was dark and he hunted it on his own, which is different from his usual feeding method of dangling it in front of him. I've attempted feedings about 5 times since, include just yesterday.

I've ruled out any illnesses at this point. As for husbandry- cool side is 80ish, warm is 85, hot spot is 88ish (Fahrenheit). Ive been struggling keeping the humidity up with it being dry out, so thats been around 50-60% most of the time (i know this is not ideal).

He was 837 grams the last time I weighed him (two weeks ago- just got a scale so i'm unsure of previous weights). I can tell he's lost weight though because his spine is a bit more protruding.

Could the fasting be due to breeding season? The general winter time? Just him being annoying? Im not terribly worried about him starving to death, I just want some peace of mind and second opinions because he's never gone this long without a meal before. Thanks!

[Zincubus]

I really wouldn’t worry at all …

How many snakes do you have incidentally ?

Just if you have a dustbin snake like a King or Boa or Corn snake then at least you aren’t wasting a mouse / rat each attempt


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[dakski]

A few things.

1. Temps are good. Humidity is also good. I keep my BP tank 50-60% most of the time, with it closer to 60-70% when she's in shed. I doubt that has much to do with the fasting.

2. If your boy is 837G now, he could be getting towards adult size. Male BP's can easier be smaller than females. Some males max out around 900-1200G +/-, certainly in 3 years (BP's, like all snakes, grow their entire lives, but they grow MUCH slower after getting to about 90-95% of adult size). When BP's hit adult size, or close to it, it's common for them to fast for a bit. As you mentioned, breeding time could also be a factor. Hormones can cause a change in behavior when active and/or new to the BP.

3. You just got a scale. He could have lost less than you thought. I'd keep on eye out. I don't even bat an eye until Shayna (my female BP) loses 10% of her body weight in a fast. That's never happened. She's 1.8kg on average throughout the year. Unless she hit 1.6kg +/- fasting, I wouldn't even begin to sweat it. Adult BP's can go a long time without losing much weight or having to eat.

4. How ofter are you offering food? When not in fast, I offer every 2 weeks unless in shed. When in fast, I offer once a month. I consider a fast as 2 missed meals in a row unless something else can explain that (shedding could easily cause a BP to miss a meal). Offering too often can keep a BP turned off food. They can also get stressed. When not looking for or expecting food, you offering is just an annoyance or worse, added stress.

5. How often are you handling? I handle less when my BP is in a fast. Maybe 1X a week versus 2-3X otherwise. I still clean the tank, water, etc. and will take her out for some or all of these activities (although I often try to combine them), but she will go right into her holding container. I won't be holding her or interacting for any prolonged period.

6. Where do you live? Is it colder? Do you have distinct winter? Either way, common for BP's to fast in winter.

7. What size food are you offering? A male BP at 800+ grams should be eating a small rat (60-90G). Not bigger, and probably won't ever eat anything larger unless he gets HUGE. If you are offering bigger food items than a small rat, it's likely your BP will fast and also likely he will miss meals. When I was feeding Shayna (my BP) medium rats, she would often skip meals and fasted almost every winter for months. Now I offer small rats every 2 weeks and she rarely misses a meal during the spring-fall and usually has short fasts in the winter (month or two +/- as opposed to 4-5 months).

8. Has the tank, decorations, hides, etc. changed at all during that period. What size tank is he in now? If he moved recently, if he's outgrowing his tank, or his tank feels to big and he feels less secure, those could cause him to skip meals as well.

9. Are you feeding F/T? It sounds like it and that's fine, if not good. How do you defrost and offer the prey?

Finally, how have you ruled out illness? To be clear, I think one or more of the above explain what's happening, but I am curious.

If you can answer the questions above, or something rings a bell and explains why he might be fasting to you, please let us know. We are happy to help.

However, this sounds pretty normal to me. Additionally, I wouldn't sweat the weight loss until he's under 800G at least. If you can post a picture, that will also help us.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[coryo]

I really wouldn’t worry at all …

How many snakes do you have incidentally ?

Just if you have a dustbin snake like a King or Boa or Corn snake then at least you aren’t wasting a mouse / rat each attempt


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I just have this one, so yeah it kinda sucks when he refuses

[Bogertophis]

...Just if you have a dustbin snake like a King or Boa or Corn snake then at least you aren’t wasting a mouse / rat each attempt


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Kings, boas, corns & others all deserve better than that! Such extra meals just makes them overweight & unhealthy, which shortens their lifespan, making them prone to health issues. Just saying.

Also, "re-offering" prey items is ONLY acceptable* IF you've had all your snakes for a long time & KNOW for sure they're all healthy. Otherwise you're transferring germs from one to another via prey. *Actually, it's always a risk, since it's impossible to know what pathogens your snake is harboring just by looking at them.

And you cannot say for sure that this BP is healthy- if you thought everything was "normal" you wouldn't be so concerned about his lack of appetite. So please do NOT re-offer prey items that are refused by this snake- it's a bad habit & asking for trouble. That's how people's collections can get wiped out. Or at the very least, vet care for many becomes very hard on your budget.

[coryo]

A few things.

1. Temps are good. Humidity is also good. I keep my BP tank 50-60% most of the time, with it closer to 60-70% when she's in shed. I doubt that has much to do with the fasting.

2. If your boy is 837G now, he could be getting towards adult size. Male BP's can easier be smaller than females. Some males max out around 900-1200G +/-, certainly in 3 years (BP's, like all snakes, grow their entire lives, but they grow MUCH slower after getting to about 90-95% of adult size). When BP's hit adult size, or close to it, it's common for them to fast for a bit. As you mentioned, breeding time could also be a factor. Hormones can cause a change in behavior when active and/or new to the BP.

3. You just got a scale. He could have lost less than you thought. I'd keep on eye out. I don't even bat an eye until Shayna (my female BP) loses 10% of her body weight in a fast. That's never happened. She's 1.8kg on average throughout the year. Unless she hit 1.6kg +/- fasting, I wouldn't even begin to sweat it. Adult BP's can go a long time without losing much weight or having to eat.

4. How ofter are you offering food? When not in fast, I offer every 2 weeks unless in shed. When in fast, I offer once a month. I consider a fast as 2 missed meals in a row unless something else can explain that (shedding could easily cause a BP to miss a meal). Offering too often can keep a BP turned off food. They can also get stressed. When not looking for or expecting food, you offering is just an annoyance or worse, added stress.

5. How often are you handling? I handle less when my BP is in a fast. Maybe 1X a week versus 2-3X otherwise. I still clean the tank, water, etc. and will take her out for some or all of these activities (although I often try to combine them), but she will go right into her holding container. I won't be holding her or interacting for any prolonged period.

6. Where do you live? Is it colder? Do you have distinct winter? Either way, common for BP's to fast in winter.

7. What size food are you offering? A male BP at 800+ grams should be eating a small rat (60-90G). Not bigger, and probably won't ever eat anything larger unless he gets HUGE. If you are offering bigger food items than a small rat, it's likely your BP will fast and also likely he will miss meals. When I was feeding Shayna (my BP) medium rats, she would often skip meals and fasted almost every winter for months. Now I offer small rats every 2 weeks and she rarely misses a meal during the spring-fall and usually has short fasts in the winter (month or two +/- as opposed to 4-5 months).

8. Has the tank, decorations, hides, etc. changed at all during that period. What size tank is he in now? If he moved recently, if he's outgrowing his tank, or his tank feels to big and he feels less secure, those could cause him to skip meals as well.

9. Are you feeding F/T? It sounds like it and that's fine, if not good. How do you defrost and offer the prey?

Finally, how have you ruled out illness? To be clear, I think one or more of the above explain what's happening, but I am curious.

If you can answer the questions above, or something rings a bell and explains why he might be fasting to you, please let us know. We are happy to help.

However, this sounds pretty normal to me. Additionally, I wouldn't sweat the weight loss until he's under 800G at least. If you can post a picture, that will also help us.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks for all the info! I've been offering him food every 2 weeks now, but towards the beginning of his fast it was more like every week because I was unsure


I've been handling him about once a week if not less


Where I live, its definitely colder than usual, but in comparison to most places we have a pretty weak winter haha



He eats small-medium rats, but now with the fasting i've gotten exclusively smalls. I dethaw them by letting them reach room temp and then warming it up with hot water for feedings.



He's about 3.5 feet long and in a 24ish gallon tank. Its possibly getting a little small for him


As for ruling out illness, the whole time he's been acting normally both day and night. His mouth, nose, and cloaca are clear and doesn't bubble

[Bogertophis]

...I've been handling him about once a week if not less


Where I live, its definitely colder than usual, but in comparison to most places we have a pretty weak winter haha


.....As for ruling out illness, the whole time he's been acting normally both day and night. His mouth, nose, and cloaca are clear and doesn't bubble

Just a few things-

Don't handle a snake that's not eating- at all! Handling puts a snake on the defensive & can hurt what little appetite they have. Snakes (especially shyer ones as BPs are) need to feel they have the "upper hand" so to speak. Nothing says "no control" like being picked up by a "giant". They stop thinking about food when handled, & more about "Am I about to get eaten?" Snakes rely on their instincts to survive, and the only thing that picks up a snake in the wild is a predator about to EAT them. Don't handle snakes that don't feed well...until they do, & then proceed slowly.

I'll bet the ambient temperatures in your house are cooler this time of year. So when you take your snake out to handle, he's also sensing the cooler temperatures that to him translates to "It's winter, don't eat!" Your warm hands don't make up for a cooler house- you're making it worse by handling him. It's all about instincts again: in the wild, snakes that get caught with food in their belly when it's too cold to digest can get very sick & die from rotting food in their gut. It helps to understand why snakes refuse to eat in winter- you're fighting their deepest instincts.

FYI: Not all illnesses in snakes are RI's- many devastating illnesses can be transferred on re-offered prey. I'm glad to see this is your only snake & re-offering food isn't an issue anyway- it's a bad idea that far too many keepers take chances with, just so you know. Saving a few bucks on a mouse gets very expensive in the long run if you end up needing vet care for a sick snake- let's stick with good advice here, folks?

[Malum Argenteum]

Also, "re-offering" prey items is ONLY acceptable* IF you've had all your snakes for a long time & KNOW for sure they're all healthy. Otherwise you're transferring germs from one to another via prey. *Actually, it's always a risk, since it's impossible to know what pathogens your snake is harboring just by looking at them.

+1 on that last thought. Snakes can carry viruses asymptomatically and with negative tests for years. There is speculation by researchers that the increase in prevalence of these viruses is due to relatively non-pathogenic strains jumping species and causing disease.

Playing musical food is always a biosecurity issue, and isn't worth the savings of a rat or two. Better to refreeze the feeder one time as long as it hasn't been thawed more than a few hours.

[YungRasputin]

i have an ongoing theory about African pythons and these feeding issues but i will say that presenting prey items in the dark and leaving them has been a tried and true method for me when my BP + African rock get picky but what i have also noticed is that they seem to vacillate between eating like a normal python and eating left prey - v rarely will my BP completely reject food and go without - personally I’ve just waited for the next feeding a week after and it usually gets them jumped back on track - hope they stop being picky soon!

[Zincubus]

i have an ongoing theory about African pythons and these feeding issues but i will say that presenting prey items in the dark and leaving them has been a tried and true method for me when my BP + African rock get picky but what i have also noticed is that they seem to vacillate between eating like a normal python and eating left prey - v rarely will my BP completely reject food and go without - personally I’ve just waited for the next feeding a week after and it usually gets them jumped back on track - hope they stop being picky soon!

Interesting..

Have you tried the hairdryer trick incidentally ?


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