Signs for Shed Intervention/Worrisome Behavior

[D-.No]

Hey Guys!

Not Sure if it's me or my snake. I feel that it might be mainly me and my impatience with the shed. About six weeks ago I was pretty sure Roxy was deep into shed, she's of a lighter color so its tough to tell. Hiding a bunch, nervous behavior and lots of time in her humid hide. Then the pink belly and the 'struggle' dance that looked way painful as if she was growing in front of me. Still I was waiting for the shed but could not find anything. She still seemed dull in her color but also seemed to be hunt mode. Since she didn't feed for two weeks I thought maybe a meal would help her bust through. It did not or I still couldn't find the shed skin.

Her behavior became odd again in a way that her senses were affected similar to shed behavior and I feared that I jumped the gun so I put her back in fast mode. Jump ahead another couple weeks although she's jumpy she is not going into any other hide but her cool side and all night as I've seen she's half in and half out of that particular. There is plenty of foliage/coverage above that hide but I can tell she's impaired, almost fearful and not her curious self. But she’ll stay like that in a hunting/hide position for hours so....… i fed her again. When she was working the rat in i could tell (or it seemed) that it was loosing some old skin around her mouth but a couple days later no change or skin.I've been keeping the humidity super high 70-90% most of the day, warm hide 84-88degrees and cool side hide 73-77degrees while maintaining ambient temp of 78-82.

The only change on my part aside from keeping the humidity so high for so long is that i've been using a split unit most of the day to keep the living space at a reasonably warm temp so not to give her the chills but it is significantly warmer in the basement since winter or at least consistently so.

I do need upgrade her hides soon, she can snuggly fit he whole body in but there is no doubt within a couple months I will need to go bigger.

Should I be concerned with this behavior? Should I resume a normal schedule or put her back in fast? Why all of a sudden she’s almost fearful of her other hides? I can find any waste and the temperatures seem fine at least with the temp gun and gauges I have. Should I be taking additional action or leave her be?

Her enclosure is due for a cleaning soon and was going to move away from the aspen cause, well it sucks especially for a basement situation during a New York winter. But I would like to do it soon so I can properly regulate everything before I go away at the end of January to give my sister/caretaker a low stress experience in monitoring her needs while I am away.

I appreciate the help.


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[Homebody]

The behavior you describe wouldn't worry me. Rather than trying to guess when she's in shed, you should maintain a humid hide for her to use whenever she needs it. I had trouble identifying the signs of a coming shed in my BP, as well, so that's what I did. It worked well for me.

I also wouldn't purposely fast her. Just offer her food on schedule. She'll refuse food when she needs to.

[Bogertophis]

...When she was working the rat in i could tell (or it seemed) that it was loosing some old skin around her mouth but a couple days later no change or skin...

FYI, I don't feed snakes if I notice beforehand that they're in "blue" or about to shed, but sometimes I accidentally have done so without noticing beforehand. It can go either way (help or hinder): sometimes the added activity (swallowing) and bulk (midsection, from the prey) will help the old skin split & come off. If you're not so lucky, the process of digestion uses up the snake's hydration to get the job of digestion done, & as a result the shed process suffers, if the snake is unable to secrete moisture between the old & new skin (as they normally do automatically to facilitate the shedding process), & the snake ends up "stuck", shedding in a zillion pieces or even needing some help & lots of extra humidity (incl. a soak) in order to get rid of the old shed.

Of course, when a snake has JUST eaten a meal, & you need to help them shed, the extra activity can also cause them to regurgitate that meal- so for all these reasons, I personally avoid feeding snakes in shed. It does take close observation & some practice to tell when a snake is in shed-especially if they're albino or light color, & it sounds like this is what you're most in need of; knowledge helps us all to relax & "go with the flow"- the longer you live with snakes, the easier it gets to know what they need, & when.

If the skin was actually coming loose around her mouth- that's where snakes begin their shed, by loosening the facial skin so it peels back under & over their body as they go forward- then it sounds like she really is about to shed & may already have done so. Sometimes they manage to do this inside a hide, & leave it tightly rolled up somewhere, making us look for it.

[D-.No]

Thanks everyone. I know I need to be more patient but snakes are unique in the pet world when it comes to lack of persuasion and reward. Even the other reptiles and amphibians I have had can be coaxed with a snack.
I got to get over that, just because she’s acting hungry doesn’t mean she is going to be deprived if I let it go another week or two.
The fact that she’s out/active (or she might just generally feel safe here) so much has been making me feel like she might’ve shed already. But I do find it really odd that she is not utilizing more of her enclosure. I’ve washed her humid hide several times, and have changed the moss or rinsed it extra, thoroughly with treated water . Overall, it’s always been her favorite spot but now she seems almost scared of it like she’ll lift her head, taste and inspect it and retract.
So odd.


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[Homebody]

Thanks everyone. I know I need to be more patient but snakes are unique in the pet world when it comes to lack of persuasion and reward. Even the other reptiles and amphibians I have had can be coaxed with a snack.
I got to get over that, just because she’s acting hungry doesn’t mean she is going to be deprived if I let it go another week or two.
The fact that she’s out/active (or she might just generally feel safe here) so much has been making me feel like she might’ve shed already. But I do find it really odd that she is not utilizing more of her enclosure. I’ve washed her humid hide several times, and have changed the moss or rinsed it extra, thoroughly with treated water . Overall, it’s always been her favorite spot but now she seems almost scared of it like she’ll lift her head, taste and inspect it and retract.
So odd.

Don't be surprised at your snake's changing behavior. Snakes' behavior can, and frequently does, change with the seasons. You've only had her a little while, so you're still getting to know her.

[Bogertophis]

Thanks everyone. I know I need to be more patient but snakes are unique in the pet world when it comes to lack of persuasion and reward. Even the other reptiles and amphibians I have had can be coaxed with a snack.
I got to get over that, just because she’s acting hungry doesn’t mean she is going to be deprived if I let it go another week or two.
The fact that she’s out/active (or she might just generally feel safe here) so much has been making me feel like she might’ve shed already. But I do find it really odd that she is not utilizing more of her enclosure. I’ve washed her humid hide several times, and have changed the moss or rinsed it extra, thoroughly with treated water . Overall, it’s always been her favorite spot but now she seems almost scared of it like she’ll lift her head, taste and inspect it and retract.
So odd.


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No matter how long you have them, some snakes are so shy that once they realize they've been seen (because they're aware of you being nearby), they'll go hide immediately. My Korean rat snake is like that- once I see him, he flees into hiding, because he ALWAYS sees me, lol. But other snakes -like my Trans Pecos & "Florida blend" (yellow+) rat snakes will watch me- very curious, & stay right on their branches when I'm around- so snakes all have their own personalities, both individually & what's typical for their species as well. It takes time for them to know us, & time for us to know them better- you'll get there.

As far as your snake utilizing her space, maybe she does at night when you're not looking & when she feels safe. Many snakes drink water then too.

It does take getting used to in keeping snakes, as far as not needing to feed them daily like most pets. But they evolved this way- to be "economical" & survive in harsh environments. It impresses the heck out of me- I sure couldn't do it.

Not sure what to tell you about the moss- when you say you rinsed it with "treated water", what do you mean? It obviously smells different (unfamiliar?) to her now- maybe it's too clean?

Anyway, this is your first snake- keep observing her- she knows what she's doing & likely has "her reasons".

[mrray13]

Not sure what to tell you about the moss- when you say you rinsed it with "treated water", what do you mean? It obviously smells different (unfamiliar?) to her now- maybe it's too clean?

Anyway, this is your first snake- keep observing her- she knows what she's doing & likely has "her reasons".

As we are getting started in the world of snakes, we were told to not worry about completely cleaning an enclosure just for the reason you mentioned….familiarity. While we clean up all solid waste, if we see a dried spot, we don’t necessarily rush to clean it up, we want to leave some of the snake’s smells where it’s at. So they know it’s their spot, and they feel safe there.

[D-.No]

Good point. The last batch of moss that has seemed to repel her was hydrated with tap water. So I then tried to rinse and soak the moss with dechlorinated water to see if that would make a difference.
Last night I see, she moved her furniture around a fair amount, tonight I will search for her shed and additional waste.


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[D-.No]

If you're not so lucky, the process of digestion uses up the snake's hydration to get the job of digestion done, & as a result the shed process suffers, if the snake is unable to secrete moisture between the old & new skin (as they normally do automatically to facilitate the shedding process), & the snake ends up "stuck", shedding in a zillion pieces or even needing some help & lots of extra humidity (incl. a soak) in order to get rid of the old shed.

Of course, when a snake has JUST eaten a meal, & you need to help them shed, the extra activity can also cause them to regurgitate that meal- so for all these reasons, I personally avoid feeding snakes in shed.

She still is avoiding her humid hide and is continuing to behave rather odd. She is hyper irritated and nervous, so I’m gingerly inspecting her enclosure and not finding anything. I do smell something a little funky, very mild, but it’s there. Not sure if it’s just that I’m keeping the humidity in there so high for so long.

Just ordered a couple size upgrades for her warm and cool side hide. Good chance after this shed. she’s going to need a little bit bigger of a safe space so I took that initiative considering right one she gets back to normal I’m going to give a thorough cleaning and change her substrate from aspen hopefully permanently.

I guess the question is how long do I wait to interject and give her a soak or another method at persuading her to come out of her old skin? It’s been over a month, but I guess I have to add on a little additional time since she’s been fed twice during this period.


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[Homebody]

I guess the question is how long do I wait to interject and give her a soak or another method at persuading her to come out of her old skin?

You never need to induce a shed. Your snake will shed on its own, when it needs to, in its own good time. You would only soak if your snake has shed, but not completely. Then, you can soak it to help it remove the stuck shed.