Anyone have experience with Nidovirus (Serpentovirus) & Fishhead Diagnostics?

[ktea93]

So my BP who is only alittle over a year old has another infection, either stomatitis or RI and is on antibiotics - but I don’t know why he keeps getting sick. His enclosure is clean, he eats well (a little too well as he’s a bit overweight rn) and his temperatures and humidity are almost always correct (88 degree hotspot, 85 in the middle and 77-80 on the cool side, humidity is mid 60’s to 70’s) save for some trial and error when I first moved him to his new enclosure.. for a few weeks I was having major issues keeping humidity at a decent spot and it would shoot way up and then go way down, but is that really enough to cause a relapse in less than a year? If I recall correctly, after all panels and swabs were done, the vet could not figure out exactly what was going on and just gave me antibiotics. A BP hobbyist who has a lot of experience with them told me that what I was saying sounded very much like Nidovirus, which my snake was tested for last year and was negative, but I was told that vets don’t “specialize” in Nidovirus testing like Fishhead Diagnostics does. I was told by this person that they had to euthanize two snakes because of the virus, that it causes long term lung and respiratory deterioration, and also that it is rampant in the industry. This is odd to me because once his first infection cleared up, he still made weird noises (sighs, slight clicks?) when I was handling him but was mostly quiet.. no lethargy, ate without issue. I was told to get the Nidovirus testing kit asap but I reached out to my vet first. What do you guys think? What’s your experience with this if any? I’m very worried.

[jmcrook]

I test all of my pythons and boas for nidovirus and arenavirus respectively upon intake as well as if any suspicious ailments arise. I personally use Research Associates Laboratory, but I've heard fishhead is good too.

[Bogertophis]

So my BP who is only alittle over a year old has another infection, either stomatitis or RI and is on antibiotics - but I don’t know why he keeps getting sick. His enclosure is clean, he eats well (a little too well as he’s a bit overweight rn) and his temperatures and humidity are almost always correct (88 degree hotspot, 85 in the middle and 77-80 on the cool side, humidity is mid 60’s to 70’s) save for some trial and error when I first moved him to his new enclosure.. for a few weeks I was having major issues keeping humidity at a decent spot and it would shoot way up and then go way down, but is that really enough to cause a relapse in less than a year? If I recall correctly, after all panels and swabs were done, the vet could not figure out exactly what was going on and just gave me antibiotics. A BP hobbyist who has a lot of experience with them told me that what I was saying sounded very much like Nidovirus, which my snake was tested for last year and was negative, but I was told that vets don’t “specialize” in Nidovirus testing like Fishhead Diagnostics does. I was told by this person that they had to euthanize two snakes because of the virus, that it causes long term lung and respiratory deterioration, and also that it is rampant in the industry. This is odd to me because once his first infection cleared up, he still made weird noises (sighs, slight clicks?) when I was handling him but was mostly quiet.. no lethargy, ate without issue. I was told to get the Nidovirus testing kit asap but I reached out to my vet first. What do you guys think? What’s your experience with this if any? I’m very worried.

I personally have never had a snake with nido (or anything like this with apparent resistance to antibiotics) but I also haven't added any snakes in years. You're right to wonder about this- is this your only snake? And if so, do you have plans to have others? So how did your vet respond? I'm sorry to hear that your snake is sick again- that would stress me out too.

[ktea93]

He is my only snake, I don’t know much about his backstory as I rescued him from CL, apparently the guy who had my BP before I rescued him was starving my snake and kept him in a dirty tank. He had no hides, no thermostat. Nothing. I don’t know here he came from or what he was exposed to as a baby. If he does end up being euthanized (I am very worried he has Nido) then I will probably not own another BP for the rest of my life because it will destroy me emotionally, not to be a drama queen. Thank you for your well wishes, I hope this is just a lousy RI and it will pass.. my vet basically told me if the antibiotics don’t clear up, we’ll have to delve deeper and do more complex testing which will be around 2-3k. I can afford it, but if this ends up being Nidovirus then what’s the point. Again, he was tested for it and it came back negative but I hear false negatives are common. I am waiting to hear back from my vet about the diagnostic kit but she’ll probably dismiss it. :/

[ktea93]

I had no idea this virus even existed tbh, I’m very new to owning reptiles and I felt like I finally had a good hold on things. He’s healthy otherwise (eats well, alert and very active) but if he’s getting sick for no reason, it must be something going on that isn’t easily spotted by vets? I guess a lot of snake owners do their own testing for the reason that vets don’t specialize in certain reptile viruses. I don’t know I am going to go ahead and order the kit. I am literally dying from stress and can’t wait anymore. I don’t trust the vets now.

[ktea93]

Oh sorry btw, does the kit you use test for both of those viruses or just one? I was referred to Fishhead by a snake hobbyist but I don’t know who’s best.

[Malum Argenteum]

Snakes carrying nido will test negative some of the time. Beyond the limits of testing (the replications in PCR are not perfectly accurate), RNA viruses are very fragile and don't survive long on the swab (they need to be overnighted to the lab). Most importantly, snakes don't shed the virus consistently. Three consecutive negative tests are the standard for ruling out nido when it is suspected.

Though I'm not very familiar with the details of disease progression and all the related issues with testing, you might also consider testing for paramyxovirus. Something to look into, anyway.

I use RAL for my testing (just sent out nine swabs today on new arrival testing; all my new booids get a boid panel and a crypto panel), and would recommend them. They're respected (not that FH isn't), less expensive, and offer a very large range of pathogen tests.

https://www.vetdna.com/

About the best collection of info on nido I've yet to bump into are these two Snakes and Stogies episodes:

https://soundcloud.com/theherpetocul...dr-porcher-dvm

https://soundcloud.com/theherpetocul...d-steve-tillis

Those were originally linked in this recent thread:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ight=nidovirus

[YungRasputin]

commenting to follow - i didn’t know about this - what is the standard treatment for this?

[Malum Argenteum]

commenting to follow - i didn’t know about this - what is the standard treatment for this?

Best to listen to those episodes -- it's complicated.

I guess a lot of snake owners do their own testing for the reason that vets don’t specialize in certain reptile viruses. I don’t know I am going to go ahead and order the kit. I am literally dying from stress and can’t wait anymore. I don’t trust the vets now.

No, we do it ourselves because it is much cheaper. A vet will get more accurate results, since they know how to swab properly. I had a heck of a time learning to do it right. Not sure what 'vets don't specialize in nidovirus testing' could even mean. Sounds like someone was trying to impress you, frankly.

Vets can certainly make a call that hindsight shows wasn't the best one, but proceeding as your vet is doesn't sound unreasonable. Most herp owners tend to want to keep costs down so that's the default. If you slap your credit card down and ask the vet to throw all the diagnostics at it, I would be willing to bet they'd cooperate.

[Bogertophis]

He is my only snake, I don’t know much about his backstory as I rescued him from CL, apparently the guy who had my BP before I rescued him was starving my snake and kept him in a dirty tank. He had no hides, no thermostat. Nothing. I don’t know here he came from or what he was exposed to as a baby. If he does end up being euthanized (I am very worried he has Nido) then I will probably not own another BP for the rest of my life because it will destroy me emotionally, not to be a drama queen. Thank you for your well wishes, I hope this is just a lousy RI and it will pass.. my vet basically told me if the antibiotics don’t clear up, we’ll have to delve deeper and do more complex testing which will be around 2-3k. I can afford it, but if this ends up being Nidovirus then what’s the point. Again, he was tested for it and it came back negative but I hear false negatives are common. I am waiting to hear back from my vet about the diagnostic kit but she’ll probably dismiss it. :/

I know it's stressful to have a sick pet, but try to stay more optimistic for now- & I don't think the testing needed costs anything like the "2-3k" you were quoted- that's outrageous & personally I'd use the tests discussed here- but make sure you carefully follow the directions & send them express (overnight) delivery. I would sort of expect your vet to discourage you from using an outside test...