New snake struck and then laid out on back

[Jcd5v]

I have a brand new 90g ball python that I got a week ago. I haven’t been messing with him until today when I tried to feed him for the first time. He struck a few times and then when he finally got it he coiled and then it was like he went limp. He wasn’t latched on and was just laying there on his back with the rat pup on him. I went to check on him and he did right himself, but then just sniffed the rat and refused to eat. I have 2 theories for what I think might have happened and would like your opinions.

The first is that this is a neurologic disorder and inclusion body disease would be the first thing that comes to mind. Really hoping it’s not that considering it’s a death sentence.

I was also thinking that maybe he’s still kind of skittish and the first strikes were more defensive and then he just froze out of fear after he got the mouse, but I don’t think that really makes sense because he doesn’t seem super skittish when I come up to the cage and he does explore plus why would he have cooled around the mouse?

I will add that he looks skinny to me. I’m not sure if most ball pythons look skinny at this age. He was hatched August 20th. I was told he was eating weekly on live rat pups.

I’ve never owned a bp this small, so it’s got me a little on edge, and I’ve never seen a snake do that.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Armiyana]

Baby BPs are a bit goofy sometimes. And sometimes they just don't know any better. One of mine hatched in July is still not eating on her own and another only started eating a couple weeks ago.

At 90 grams he's eaten a few meals already. So he has done it. I think you may be stressing him out more by helicoptering. The immediate jump to IBD is not usually made when it comes to a 2 months old in a new environment. As far as the Neuro symptoms go, does he have a gene in the spider complex? Was he overheated or exposed to chemicals at some point?

Did you wiggle the mouse a bit after he coiled? Or was it maybe a bit too cool by the last strike? He may have just realized that it wasn't 'alive'.
A baby that young very little experience so he only knows a few things about food. Did you ask the breeder what he was eating? You could probably afford to wait it out another 5 days and try again with f/t or try a live of the breeder was feeding that. It's not very hard to switch them to f/t after a couple of good meals, but the stress of the move and new home may be a factor there.

Speaking of which.... What is he set up in and current temps?
Baby BPs are a bit lanky, and a lot of older BPs have a lot of chonk. So it's most likely the case here, but a couple photos of the little one wouldn't hurt to get a body condition opinion.

[Jcd5v]

Baby BPs are a bit goofy sometimes. And sometimes they just don't know any better. One of mine hatched in July is still not eating on her own and another only started eating a couple weeks ago.

At 90 grams he's eaten a few meals already. So he has done it. I think you may be stressing him out more by helicoptering. The immediate jump to IBD is not usually made when it comes to a 2 months old in a new environment. As far as the Neuro symptoms go, does he have a gene in the spider complex? Was he overheated or exposed to chemicals at some point?

Did you wiggle the mouse a bit after he coiled? Or was it maybe a bit too cool by the last strike? He may have just realized that it wasn't 'alive'.
A baby that young very little experience so he only knows a few things about food. Did you ask the breeder what he was eating? You could probably afford to wait it out another 5 days and try again with f/t or try a live of the breeder was feeding that. It's not very hard to switch them to f/t after a couple of good meals, but the stress of the move and new home may be a factor there.

Speaking of which.... What is he set up in and current temps?
Baby BPs are a bit lanky, and a lot of older BPs have a lot of chonk. So it's most likely the case here, but a couple photos of the little one wouldn't hurt to get a body condition opinion.

Sorry I should’ve included his setup. He’s in a 20 gallon with 2
identical hides. One is above the heat mat which is at 90 degrees and the other is on the cool side which tends to be about 80. Humidity 60% currently.

I’m not worried about the eating much since it’s our first try, and I tried frozen thawed just because that’s what I have, but he was on live. I’m going to get a live rat pup from a friend to feed him after a few days have passed, and do that for a little while. The laying upside down just freaked me out because like I said he looked like he had just gone limp and died almost. He does not have the spider gene. He’s a super pastel clown poss leopard.

Yea that’s how I would describe him just lanky. I wouldn’t say I’m helicoptering in the sense that I’m bothering the snake. I’ve let him be until today. I did get him out and he did right himself a few times when I put him on his back. He didn’t every time, but I think it was more of him balling up and freezing than an inability to. It was just such an odd thing to see.

I’ll just assume it was a weird baby thing unless he continues to do it.

[Jcd5v]

Here’s a picture mostly just to show him off. I love his pattern. You can see though that he will hang out calmly in his cage even when I approach the glass, so I don’t think he’s too scared of me, and he doesn’t look skinny to me in this picture. It’s just more when hes stretched out which makes sense if they just tend to be lankier.

He got held an additional night at the post office as well, so it’s been a little bit of a rollercoaster with him already, and I’m being a bit of a worry wort I guess.

[Bogertophis]

He's very exotic looking. And I mean that in a very good way-

I'd be somewhat concerned & it bears watching, but as Armiyana said, it might just be goofy juvenile uncertainty & the lack of practice. Let's hope so, anyway. Young BPs can be sorta clumsy at times.

I once had an adult rat snake that fainted, & only one time ever- so odd things can happen for snakes, just as they do for humans, without there being any major health issue- just a response to stress, etc. I'd also imagine that some snakes can have blood pressure issues, for example- but it's just that they're so stoic, it hasn't had much study or documentation as with humans. I hope you can get him on f/t easily- that might help. Out of curiosity, what sort of water is he drinking? If it's tap water, does your home have a water softener?

[Jcd5v]

He's very exotic looking. And I mean that in a very good way-

I'd be somewhat concerned & it bears watching, but as Armiyana said, it might just be goofy juvenile uncertainty & the lack of practice. Let's hope so, anyway. Young BPs can be sorta clumsy at times.

I once had an adult rat snake that fainted, & only one time ever- so odd things can happen for snakes, just as they do for humans, without there being any major health issue- just a response to stress, etc. I'd also imagine that some snakes can have blood pressure issues, for example- but it's just that they're so stoic, it hasn't had much study or documentation as with humans. I hope you can get him on f/t easily- that might help. Out of curiosity, what sort of water is he drinking? If it's tap water, does your home have a water softener?

He's very exotic looking. And I mean that in a very good way-

I'd be somewhat concerned & it bears watching, but as Armiyana said, it might just be goofy juvenile uncertainty & the lack of practice. Let's hope so, anyway. Young BPs can be sorta clumsy at times.

I once had an adult rat snake that fainted, & only one time ever- so odd things can happen for snakes, just as they do for humans, without there being any major health issue- just a response to stress, etc. I'd also imagine that some snakes can have blood pressure issues, for example- but it's just that they're so stoic, it hasn't had much study or documentation as with humans. I hope you can get him on f/t easily- that might help. Out of curiosity, what sort of water is he drinking? If it's tap water, does your home have a water softener?

Thank you. I think so too. Looks like a leopard even if he doesn’t actually have that gene. Yea that’s what I’m hoping.

Hmm. I hadn’t considered something like a syncope episode. Their cardiovascular system is quite different from ours, so I’m not even sure if syncope would be an issue with them, but yea I’m sure no one has really studied it.

I use tap water. No water softener. Ive tested the Kh and Gh of my water before because I have fish tanks and it isn’t super hard water or anything. What makes you ask?


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[Bogertophis]

Thank you. I think so too. Looks like a leopard even if he doesn’t actually have that gene. Yea that’s what I’m hoping.

Hmm. I hadn’t considered something like a syncope episode. Their cardiovascular system is quite different from ours, so I’m not even sure if syncope would be an issue with them, but yea I’m sure no one has really studied it.

I use tap water. No water softener. Ive tested the Kh and Gh of my water before because I have fish tanks and it isn’t super hard water or anything. What makes you ask?


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I asked about a water softener because they tend to raise the sodium level in the water- something that I'd assume might negatively affect snakes & would therefore avoid.

[Jcd5v]

I asked about a water softener because they tend to raise the sodium level in the water- something that I'd assume might negatively affect snakes & would therefore avoid.

Oh ok. I figured that’s what your were getting at but didn’t know if I was missing something about hard water being bad. Hypernatremia would make some sense if I did have a water softener.

If it happens again, I’ll make sure you get a video. Thanks for the help!


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[GoingPostal]

He got held an additional night at the post office as well, so it’s been a little bit of a rollercoaster with him already, and I’m being a bit of a worry wort I guess.

Are you in the US? Snakes are not mailable through USPS so any breeder sending them that way should be named and shamed imo. That is not a safe or legal way to ship a snake which has me concerned about the breeder quality and care previous to getting to you, it sounds like you just very recently received him?

[Albert Clark]

I believe what you witnessed possibly was the extreme ending of all that energy that’s expended in a juveniles hunting , coiling, and killing of their prey. As was described earlier, they are new at it and still figuring the methods out. They tend to be very exhausted afterwards. Just look at their breathing and respiratory rates after making a kill whether f/t or live. They lie there momentarily and sometimes for extended periods making sure they themselves are not injured or in pain. Of course also, that the prey item is disposed of and doesn’t pose a threat to them.