Temperature and humidity frustrations

[Hines9905]

Long post alert.
Ok I am so frustrated with my husbandry I could cry right now and would appreciate any advice or tips please!

I upgraded Severus’ enclosure yesterday and was hopeful that I had everything set up correctly. This is the zoo med front opening 40gal (19.5” deep x 37.5” long x 19.25” high)
I soaked reptichip yesterday to expand it and put it in the bottom, then I sprinkled bit of reptibark mixed with eco earth (that’s what I was using in his last enclosure) on top. There is a small uth under his warm hide on the left side on a thermostat set to 88*F. I have a 150watt CHE in the single dome over the hot side on a thermostat set to 88*F the middle light is the Arcadia shade dweller uvb bulb. On the cool side I have a 100watt CHE on a thermostat set to 80*F.

My problem is that the CHE kicks on and the thermostat registers the temp near the Govee thermometer but the surface of the hide is several degrees hotter (at one point it was 94) but using my temp gun, the substrate temperature is much lower (77-82*)

Also, I can not figure out how to keep my humidity stable. I have hvac tape covering the top, and I can see through the glass front that the bottom of the substrate is still damp, but the top is dry and the humidity keeps dropping to the 40’s and is averaging only 53% on the warm side. The middle rock is a humid hide with damp sphagnum moss inside.

Any advice for the heating or humidity? I thought for sure I was getting this set up right but now am not so sure. Pics for reference:





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Homebody]

My problem is that the CHE kicks on and the thermostat registers the temp near the Govee thermometer but the surface of the hide is several degrees hotter (at one point it was 94) but using my temp gun, the substrate temperature is much lower (77-82*)

Which CHE kicks on? You have two.

[Hines9905]

Which CHE kicks on? You have two.

I have them each on their own thermostat so they kick on independently of each other. The substrate temps I listed were on the warm side, but it’s still similar that the substrate temps are lower than the ambient temp that the Govee and the thermostat probe are reading. The hot side thermostat is set to 88 and the cool side is set to 80. I was worried since it is still pretty chilly in our house that the one wouldn’t be enough and the cold side would get too cold.

[Homebody]

I have them each on their own thermostat so they kick on independently of each other. The substrate temps I listed were on the warm side, but it’s still similar that the substrate temps are lower than the ambient temp that the Govee and the thermostat probe are reading. The hot side thermostat is set to 88 and the cool side is set to 80. I was worried since it is still pretty chilly in our house that the one wouldn’t be enough and the cold side would get too cold.

I understand about the cool side CHE. I use heat tape to accomplish the same thing. I'm sorry I can't be much help to you with your temp and humidity issues. I've never used glass enclosures, CHEs, or UV bulbs. I will say regarding your humidity issue that, if you put more water in and stop it from getting out, your humidity will go up and stay there. I'd try a larger water bowl, one with more surface area, and if your enclosure has vents, I'd close them.

I understand your frustration. You've clearly put a lot of time and effort into setting up this enclosure. You get an "A" for effort. The good news is it looks like you've got all the equipment you'll need. You just need to tweak it a bit.

[Hines9905]

Thank you! I have only had him since mid July and I just want to make his enclosure the best that I can for him. What heat source do you use? I have read a little bit about dhp but am a little nervous to use it, I think I read that it needs to be on a dimmer rather than just a thermostat?

[Homebody]

Thank you! I have only had him since mid July and I just want to make his enclosure the best that I can for him. What heat source do you use? I have read a little bit about dhp but am a little nervous to use it, I think I read that it needs to be on a dimmer rather than just a thermostat?

In addition to the heat tape, I use an RHP. I've never used a DHP either, but if you've got 6 minutes, Arcadia put out a fairly accessible infomercial. My take away from it was that it's more beneficial to basking species.

[Malum Argenteum]

ExoTerra type enclosures are really hard to work with for many common herp species including (I would assume; I use about a dozen of them but not for any snakes) BPs. They leak heat and moisture something terrible (which is actually good for some species). When the snake is ready for its adult sized enclosure, do consider a PVC enclosure like those from AP Cages. They're worth the cost and the wait time (order about 8 months before you'll need it), and only need one RHP for heat.

"My problem is that the CHE kicks on and the thermostat registers the temp near the Govee thermometer but the surface of the hide is several degrees hotter (at one point it was 94) but using my temp gun, the substrate temperature is much lower (77-82*)"

A couple things I notice. Not sure exactly how literally to take 'kicks on', but I'm of the opinion that only Herpstats (and possibly VE thermostats) are reliable and safety-featured enough to trust with animals. Either of those will have a proportional setting whereby the heat source won't kick on and off but rather will run at whatever power level keeps the temp set point. This isn't the source of your current worries, but I thought it worth mentioning, if not now for the future or for future readers of this thread.

As to the temp difference between probe and basking spot: you need to adjust the thermostat to whatever number it reads when the basking spot is the temp you want it to be. So if the thermostat probe is 100F when the basking spot is at the desired temp, then set the thermostat at 100F. It doesn't matter what the probe reads; it only matters what the temp of the basking spot (or whatever spot you're trying to heat) actually is, and that the thermostat keeps it at that temp.

As for humidity: adding more semi porous climbing surfaces (cork bark is a material I like) will give the snake more cover and also provide surfaces that will trap water when misted. Mist everything with a spray bottle and see what the RH does.

Also: what is the RH where the snake will be hanging out? That's more important than the RH at some random place.

[YungRasputin]

for controlling the temp i use a ReptiTherm digital thermometer to cap the heat at 90F at the bask - for the humidity i would strongly recommend using a different substrate mixture which is going to hold humidity longer - things like cocofiber, etc absorb moisture quickly but they also loose humidity quickly (which can be used to your advantage in some cases) but i found straight up raw peat works absolute wonders (you just have to keep up with it because once it’s dried out it’s useless) but raw peat, jungle earth, raw/organic top soil, small dashes of sand to stave off mold, etc - i think this mixture would work better here for you

all of the substrates mentioned can be found at Lowe’s, in bulk, for $5 usd or so - they’re much cheaper than pet store substrates - Scott’s organic top soil is good and cheap - v important tho that it’s organic and contains no fertilizers or anything

Exo Terra’s may not be ideal for snakes (i have a lot of my collection in them) but i do think you can achieve things that most people wouldn’t believe with them eg: there is some arboreal species of tarantulas that I’ve kept (pokies) that required 70-80%+ humidity and high heat - i achieved this with the above substrates consistently with daily humidification techniques - i totally think you could achieve the 50-60% needed for a BP in 1

[Homebody]

ExoTerra type enclosures are really hard to work with for many common herp species including (I would assume; I use about a dozen of them but not for any snakes) BPs. They leak heat and moisture something terrible (which is actually good for some species). When the snake is ready for its adult sized enclosure, do consider a PVC enclosure like those from AP Cages. They're worth the cost and the wait time (order about 8 months before you'll need it), and only need one RHP for heat.

"My problem is that the CHE kicks on and the thermostat registers the temp near the Govee thermometer but the surface of the hide is several degrees hotter (at one point it was 94) but using my temp gun, the substrate temperature is much lower (77-82*)"

A couple things I notice. Not sure exactly how literally to take 'kicks on', but I'm of the opinion that only Herpstats (and possibly VE thermostats) are reliable and safety-featured enough to trust with animals. Either of those will have a proportional setting whereby the heat source won't kick on and off but rather will run at whatever power level keeps the temp set point. This isn't the source of your current worries, but I thought it worth mentioning, if not now for the future or for future readers of this thread.

As to the temp difference between probe and basking spot: you need to adjust the thermostat to whatever number it reads when the basking spot is the temp you want it to be. So if the thermostat probe is 100F when the basking spot is at the desired temp, then set the thermostat at 100F. It doesn't matter what the probe reads; it only matters what the temp of the basking spot (or whatever spot you're trying to heat) actually is, and that the thermostat keeps it at that temp.

As for humidity: adding more semi porous climbing surfaces (cork bark is a material I like) will give the snake more cover and also provide surfaces that will trap water when misted. Mist everything with a spray bottle and see what the RH does.

1 agree with everything above except I think you misunderstood the OP's concern. The OP's concerned with the difference between the basking temp (too high) and the hot side ambient temp (too low). If you lower the thermostat setting to reduce the basking temp the ambient will be even lower. If you raise the thermostat setting, the ambient will be better, but the basking temp will be even higher.

If you stop the heat from bleeding out, you may be able to lower your thermostat setting to fix the basking temp without lowering the ambient. Reducing the ventilation may help. Covering the sides with an insulating material may help too.