Feeling really discouraged!

[LYONExotics]

Hi Everyone!

I LOVE ball pythons and have had one as a pet. This year I decided I was going to go all in after doing tons of research with trying to breed to help my daughter pay for college (I feel like such a sucky mom that I don't have a robust college fund for her, so I'm putting my love of these animals into a project that I hope will help me help her pay for at least some of her college, she graduates from HS in June of this year). Anyway I purchased two males that in my newbie mind are pretty sound genetically, but were also not cheap! One is an enchi, gravel, yb, pied and the other is Cinny, sup pastel, sandblast, pied. I have a few other males that are locking perfectly, but these two are just not locking and every time I check on them they are curled up in their own section of the tub, once in a while they are snuggled up with the females, but no locks from either of them..I also work full time so don't check crazy often. The enchi, gravel, yb, pied is a proven male from Kinova. The other one I bought from a breeder that sent me pics of him locked with another female (who I also purchased...I have yet to see them lock and she is still on food and has been paired with him since 10/26). So my question is do I run out and try to buy replacement males for the girls I have slated with these two or am I panicking and maybe they're being sneaky over night or during the way while I'm at work? I'd love any advice, even if it's to tell me to calm the eff down! I've tried the shed from other males thing, not sure it's making a difference.

TIA!

[Dinoroar]

What size are your two?

I'm facing a similar dilemma with a 750g male. A lot of tricks I were told is;
Try placing a known's males shed n the enclosure with the breeding pair.
Rub another males sperm on her.
Feed less, smaller meals.
Pop the male beforehand (only if you know how, you don't want to harm him.)
I've only heard it works on colubrids, but it may be worth a shot taking the boys for a car ride.
Breed during storms and nasty weather.

Maybe they'll work for you, but I'm thinking mine just needs another year. Because I still can't get any interest from him.


Editing to say you have some really good power houses going for you. I wouldn't give up on them just yet, the season is still young.

[Armiyana]

As someone with a super cinny, pastel poss sandblast who is being shy, I feel that pain.
I'd step back and take a few deep breaths though.

My first breeding attempt last year had my girl eating well up until the month she layed. I had been pairing her up since Dec and she layed in May. I only saw 2 locks in that time.
Dinoroar gave you a good list of tricks. I'll add on that misting down the enclosure really well to simulate that storminess could help.
I've heard of some people putting 2 males together briefly to help get them a bit amped up. Not long enough for them to start fighting, but to at least get a good whiff of each other. I don't know how effective that is and would worry about being unnecessary stress.

But on the topic of stress...
You mention the female being paired with him since 10/26...if by this, you mean co-habbing, I would definitely stop that.
Sure you hear people talk about pairing a male to "All of their females" But the reality of it is that male will need time to recuperate and de-stress. At the very least try a 2 weeks on, one week off. Don't just keep throwing him in weekend after weekend. Maybe after the weekend off, a good misting and the help of another male's spermplug for jealousy might be all you need.

[LYONExotics]

Thanks for the suggestions! The Cinny, sup pastel, sandblast, pied is hovering right around 700g and will be 4 years old this year. He's been a great eater for me, but I do wonder why he's so small if he ate ok with his past owner.
The Enchi, gravel, yb, pied is right around 1100g, but refuses to eat for me and hasn't eaten since I got him from Kinova....I've tried everything and he's just not interested, so I'm assuming he's doing the fasting during breeding thing, BUT it seems like he's not breeding so I'm confused lol!

[Bogertophis]

I agree with Armiyana that if you've been constantly co-habbing these snakes, give them some separation time now

I've never bred BPs, but I have bred other kinds of snakes, & while many of them mated right away & while I was watching, the same was not true of my rosy boas- I'd put them together for a while, & though I'd see them lying close together now & then, it never appeared like anything was going on- except the female reproduced without fail, for five years total, so I'd say it's not safe to assume yours have not mated.

Don't know if it will apply to BPs or not, but one thing that always worked well for me was to put each snake in the other's enclosure for a while before they actually met face to face. That seemed to generate some interest in each other's scent & facilitate their first meeting. But by now, it seems like yours each need some "me time".

[LYONExotics]

As someone with a super cinny, pastel poss sandblast who is being shy, I feel that pain.
I'd step back and take a few deep breaths though.

My first breeding attempt last year had my girl eating well up until the month she layed. I had been pairing her up since Dec and she layed in May. I only saw 2 locks in that time.
Dinoroar gave you a good list of tricks. I'll add on that misting down the enclosure really well to simulate that storminess could help.
I've heard of some people putting 2 males together briefly to help get them a bit amped up. Not long enough for them to start fighting, but to at least get a good whiff of each other. I don't know how effective that is and would worry about being unnecessary stress.

But on the topic of stress...
You mention the female being paired with him since 10/26...if by this, you mean co-habbing, I would definitely stop that.
Sure you hear people talk about pairing a male to "All of their females" But the reality of it is that male will need time to recuperate and de-stress. At the very least try a 2 weeks on, one week off. Don't just keep throwing him in weekend after weekend. Maybe after the weekend off, a good misting and the help of another male's spermplug for jealousy might be all you need.

Thanks so much for the advice! They aren't co-habbing, I've put him in with her once a month for 3 days each time...so not crazy often. Definitely will add the misting to my list of tricks to try

[Armiyana]

Good! Just making sure. =)
Sometimes I need to double check because what I mean by pairing is exactly how you described, 3 days at a time. In the past while watching people trouble shoot I've seen people take that meaning as co-habbing and not mentioning it until way later in the convo. Which would have saved a lot of time

And yeah that's not crazy often at all. Hmm. Typically I'll mist down the female's enclosure really well just before introducing the male. Hopefully like Boger said they're just waiting until the coast is clear to get it on.
Spotted your page though and it looks like you have a few other interesting projects in the works with some promising looking locks!

[nikkubus]

So one problem you might be running into is that the female just isn't in season. Generally, pairing her will stimulate her to start building follicles and she will go into season, but sometimes they really just have their own clock. It's also completely possible you just missed the locks. I have had plenty of huge clutches from ladies I never saw a male lock with, even checking a couple times a day on them.

Some people really like to have a backup male and put her with him instead when they aren't getting good locks. You kind of have to weigh your options and decide what makes the most sense for the projects you are working on. If you have another male that is close enough to what you are trying to achieve, maybe go for it. Otherwise, I'd just be patient, and if she doesn't go this year, thats more time for her to grow even bigger and you get a bigger clutch next year.

Word to the wise, if you are trying to do this to earn money quickly, you might be in for some rude surprises. It can take a long while to recover your investment, let alone make money, even when you are doing everything right. It takes a lot of patience to get things really off the ground, so just hang in there and don't give up. It's very possible to make a lot of money fairly quickly, but it's not the norm by any stretch of the imagination.

As far as 700g at 4 years old, he is growing a lot slower than normal, but I still wouldn't be too concerned about it if the shape of his body is correct. Sometimes they can be runts, or just like to fast a lot, and take their sweet time.