Considering Mahoganies in pursuit of a Suma, but is it wise?

[Bleh]

Have recently seen a mahogany for the first time and finding myself not able to stop thinking about them...

Firstly, the super form, Suma, looks phenomenal to me and then there's the potential for all my other possible pairings with my super lesser (BEL) as well as others!

But I've not seen any Suma's for sale in the UK, and only one two year old male on Morph Market so was wondering, is there a problem with the mahogany gene that is undesirable in super form?

Hopefully someone here will have experience with them and can advise accordingly.

Thanks in advance.

[nikkubus]

What I have heard from many reputable breeders is that it does not have the problems that super cinnamon and super black pastel are known for getting a lot of the time.

However, I have heard from a couple that it's been harder to hit than they would expect. Could be coincidence.

I think for the most part, it's just a lack of people breeding them vs the demand. There are a grand total of 4 available in the US morph market right now, but if you view sold listings, there are at least many more sold within a year or so.

[Bleh]

However, I have heard from a couple that it's been harder to hit than they would expect. Could be coincidence.

I think for the most part, it's just a lack of people breeding them vs the demand.

Thanks Nikkubus.

A bit surprised there's not more suma's about to be honest, I loved looking pictures of them lately and finding it hard to not look for mahoganies from alternative breeders with a suma in mind!
Looking at the genetics wizard, it suggests a 50% (1/2) chance of a suma with 25% mahogany and 25% normal so maybe if those with far greater experience aren't producing them, and we say we don't like coincidences (nuisance things, coincidences), maybe there's something else going on stopping the super form from being produced regularly?

Still, the mahogany looks lovely and could blend nicely with other genetics I have here, so I am really, really tempted to look into pursuing this

[nikkubus]

Problem is that we have such a small sample pool and not everybody working with mahogany is breeding them to mahogany at all. JKR has been working with them probably longer than most, but he doesn't mass produce like a lot of breeders do and he holds back a lot of what he is producing, and many of his projects with them are not going mahogany to mahogany, they are sticking to one parent having it and not the other because of what he is trying to produce. His one project where he is aiming for suma, he has a handful of clutches each year going mahogany to mahogany and holding back most of the suma.

The odds you posted are for suma to mahogany, which I think the majority of people are not doing. Mahogany to mahogany is going to be much more the path people are going which would be 25% suma. You have to understand that the experienced breeders for the most part are not trying to produce the same thing over and over, they are trying to add more morphs in, so going back to mahogany x mahogany over and over again rather than suma to mahogany because the sumas are going to non-mahogany to bring in new morphs.

[Bleh]

The odds you posted are for suma to mahogany, which I think the majority of people are not doing. Mahogany to mahogany is going to be much more the path people are going which would be 25% suma.

Yeah, your spot on. I completely misquoted the figures and remembered them incorrectly.

And I can see why people are trying to create something more unique with the gene. There's some beautiful looking animals on Morph Market with mahogany in there.

There doesn't seem to be many single gene mahoganies for sale with a quick browse, but I have put the query in with the shop I use. But I'm also keen to not purchase siblings so will look to pick up a female in the near future ready for a few years time. And a male can be sourced at a later date

I'm not keen on picking up adults at this stage of my hobby, I like to grow them on from young so I have the confidence the BP is a good example. I a huge fan of all the possible patterns with BP's but the animals health and welfare are paramount - my BP's are pets first and I dread the thought that as I try to limit my collection to a low number, I may one day need to consider moving one of my adults on to make room for another!

But yeah, think I'll explore the mahogany more.

As always, your experience is appreciated

[nikkubus]

I'm not keen on picking up adults at this stage of my hobby, I like to grow them on from young so I have the confidence the BP is a good example. I a huge fan of all the possible patterns with BP's but the animals health and welfare are paramount - my BP's are pets first and I dread the thought that as I try to limit my collection to a low number, I may one day need to consider moving one of my adults on to make room for another!

There are others that do that, where they don't tend to rehome/sell adults because they consider each animal a pet. It's understandable after having an animal for years that you become attached and want to keep it, even when it no longer makes sense to breed it. Personally, I try to keep it in mind that the animals do not get a personal attachment to me like I do them, and the most important thing is making sure that if I do rehome them for any reason, I vet the people taking/buying them very carefully to make sure they will provide the same standard of care that I do. So if it ever comes to that point for you where you need to thin out what you have for any reason, you can still be very choosey who you give/sell them to. I do my best to limit things incoming so it's less heartbreaking having to rehome later on, which includes rehoming relatively quickly after 90 day quarantine animals that I have taken in to help, or animals in a collection purchase (when a person wants to sell all their animals as a group and I want some of them) that I don't really have good breeding plans for.

So take your time choosing animals to start projects with It's very much worth it in the long run to have a solid plan. Mahogany is such an amazing morph to work with for so many things, so it may be worth holding off just a bit to see if there is a combo you could use for more than just one project!

[Bleh]

Personally, I try to keep it in mind that the animals do not get a personal attachment to me like I do them, and the most important thing is making sure that if I do rehome them for any reason, I vet the people taking/buying them very carefully to make sure they will provide the same standard of care that I do.

Yep, fully aware my BP's wouldn't give a toss if I was decomposing in the corner. Their only disappointment would likely be that I couldn't fit into their mouth

So take your time choosing animals to start projects with It's very much worth it in the long run to have a solid plan. Mahogany is such an amazing morph to work with for so many things, so it may be worth holding off just a bit to see if there is a combo you could use for more than just one project!

And Yep again. Always considered going down the pied route but was taking my time to find the right pairing I fancied experimenting with but seeing some mahogany outcomes has really made my mouth water, especially the suma!

The consideration of holding out for mahogany het pieds has crossed my mind, but I think I'm just being greedy there!

My decided holdback from my first ever clutch is just an enchi, but his contrast just pleases my eyes with every viewing - he could have some chocolate influence in there, is certainly darker, but also more vibrant than the other enchi I have here. A simple gene that offers plenty. The mum is enchi pin and my BEL has possible enchi there so he's kept in mind for some possible supers in the future.

And again, my ultimate goal will be a suma but I have females that would be interesting to see what a male mahogany can produce with them, and likewise my males with a female mahogany.

I am always keeping in mind anything I decide to pursue now won't come to fruition for a few years yet, and even then there's no guarantee!

Been keeping BP's around 5 years, and this season is my first clutch because only this season I was comfortable with pairing to my female. She was at a good weight last year, but I worried she was too young so gave her another year and hopefully that helped with her first clutch yielding 11 eggs (although, only ten survived).

This season, my pastel spotnose (male) should be ready to try pairing as he's easily surpassed the 600g threshold now - but I am still slightly apprehensive! But as long as he keeps gaining the grams over the next few months, I'm going to try him with my enchi pin.

But back to mahoganies, I think this will be my 'final' additions, for now, until some new hold backs make me think twice, maybe!!!