This clutch was sired by two males. Can anyone help me out with the genetics?

[AlexAldrete]

That's wild, she looks completely normal for a Pin. Maybe it's some mysterious gene from the dad then that is modifying the pattern.

3 does not have Cinnamon, Enchi, or Lesser, so just Pinstripe.

Yeah, I don't see any influence of the other genes in that one either. I think I'll just advertise it as a Pinstripe if I do decide to part ways with it, although right now I'm thinking I'll raise the three of them for at least a year before considering selling any of them. One thing that's bugging me is that Enchi and Cinnamon are supposed to be allelic, so the hatchlings would HAVE to be either Enchi or Cinnamon. But I guess there's always the chance that that particular hatchling is from the Lesser male, but it simply didn't inherit the Lesser trait, hence being a straight Pinstripe.

Sooo, are we sold on the first two being Cinnamon Pinstripe and Enchi Pinstripe then? I really appreciate your input, by the way. You've been super helpful.

[MissingLink]

Yeah, I don't see any influence of the other genes in that one either. I think I'll just advertise it as a Pinstripe if I do decide to part ways with it, although right now I'm thinking I'll raise the three of them for at least a year before considering selling any of them. One thing that's bugging me is that Enchi and Cinnamon are supposed to be allelic, so the hatchlings would HAVE to be either Enchi or Cinnamon. But I guess there's always the chance that that particular hatchling is from the Lesser male, but it simply didn't inherit the Lesser trait, hence being a straight Pinstripe.

Sooo, are we sold on the first two being Cinnamon Pinstripe and Enchi Pinstripe then? I really appreciate your input, by the way. You've been super helpful.

This is why I'll never pair a female with more than one male ever again..lol I did it one time and I still have headaches from it. I've seen some pretty normal looking pins that prove out enchi before so I would just say pinstripe with the one to be safe but let any buyer know the history.

[nikkubus]

I'm really having second thoughts that 3 might be Cinnamon Pinstripe. You have a point about the allelic issue, and the thickness of the black could be explained by Cinnamon or Enchi. I didn't think it was because the head is just so dark, but then again so is the Sire's for a cinnamon. But what is throwing me off is how different 1 and 3 look from each other.

I'm confident 1 is at least Cinnamon Pinstripe - but wondering if something else is at play.
I'm confident 2 is Enchi Pinstripe.

[AlexAldrete]

This is why I'll never pair a female with more than one male ever again..lol I did it one time and I still have headaches from it. I've seen some pretty normal looking pins that prove out enchi before so I would just say pinstripe with the one to be safe but let any buyer know the history.

Honestly, I think that trying to figure out what genes a hatchling might have is one of the most fun aspects of the hobby/industry, specially when dealing with many or highly variable mutations. I think it adds an extra layer of difficulty and complexity to what we do, and I find that kinda fun.

Of course not knowing exactly what genes are in a snake can make certain decisions more difficult, such as which hatchlings to hold back or which adults to pair together. I for one REALLY wanted to prove out my Lesser male, but it looks like I'll have to wait another season for that.

I'm really having second thoughts that 3 might be Cinnamon Pinstripe. You have a point about the allelic issue, and the thickness of the black could be explained by Cinnamon or Enchi. I didn't think it was because the head is just so dark, but then again so is the Sire's for a cinnamon. But what is throwing me off is how different 1 and 3 look from each other.

I'm confident 1 is at least Cinnamon Pinstripe - but wondering if something else is at play.
I'm confident 2 is Enchi Pinstripe.

Yeah! I'd say we are pretty much on the same page. I've heard of clutches with babies from two different fathers before, so there's always the chance that that third hatchling might simply not be an offspring of the Enchi Cinnamon male. But it could also be a rather low expression Enchi or Cinnamon.

I'm really interested in growing out hatchling number one, and I'm having a hard time believing there's only Cinnamon and Pinstripe in it. But who knows? It might be just a brighter example of those genes, or it might darken up and become more dull in color with age.

Anyways! Thank you both for your insights. I'll leave the thread open in case someone else wants to chime in, but I think we've shed as much light on the issue as it is currently possible.

[nikkubus]

Honestly, I think that trying to figure out what genes a hatchling might have is one of the most fun aspects of the hobby/industry, specially when dealing with many or highly variable mutations. I think it adds an extra layer of difficulty and complexity to what we do, and I find that kinda fun.

I agree. I have so much fun making project plans and trying to ID, the more difficult, the more fun it is.