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  1. #1
    Registered User Kingdomall's Avatar
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    The Hot Debate: Live vs f/t [

    Hello there!
    I sure hope that controversial topics are okay.
    This is a huge controversial topic in the community and I didn't find much on it here from cruising in 50+ threads today (boredom does weird things to you).
    I genuinely want to hear your guys' thoughts and this thread is not meant to create harm or discuss highly controversial things just for the sake of arguments.

    What are your thoughts on Frozen/Thawed VS Live mice/rats?

    In my opinion, I would rather go for f/t over live any day. I completely understand wanting to give your snake a quality of life with stimulation and excitement (while also keeping all the nutrient a live rodent could provide) but I can't help but feel that it isn't entirely necessary. I find that it's much cheaper to buy and use f/t over live unless you have a huge collection and you need to breed your own rodents. Like, my little boy I feed about once every 7 days on weaned rats (still not sure about his exact weight, I bought a scale yesterday and I'm waiting for it to arrive) and it costed around $62 for 25 rats which can last him over 6 months give or take. That can certainly add up once you have more than 3 snakes, at which point I understand having to breed your own rodents and sometimes being lazy to actually kill it. I just feel it may be more risky than it should be.

    I've heard a lot of horror stories of poor BPs that were lazily fed live rodents and left in their enclosure "until they got hungry", but you should always monitor it, right? The rodent can fight back or simply bite the snake because it's hungry (they're not very bright honestly, no more brighter than snakes though) and with time it can cause some serious problems with your snake.
    Honestly many people are deterred by snakes because the thought of feeding f/t doesn't come to mind and you "MUST" feed them live or else they just won't eat. I used to think it was a necessity until I started to learn more about them and it really helps me love snakes even more than I do. I'm not saying I wouldn't feed my snake live if I absolutely had to, but I 100% prefer the safer option.

    I think another irritation I find with live is that it's notoriously difficult getting BPs on f/t after they get used to live. They just don't see it as food and base the movements off of the animal more than the smell or heat.
    The final problem I have is that so many breeders sell BPs that are feeding on live! I wish it was easier to transfer them lol.

    Like I said earlier I completely understand when you absolutely must feed live because they don't see f/t as food or start a hunger strike. But in my opinion, you shouldn't have to feed live if you don't need to, right?

    A thought I had is, would a

    P L E A S E be respectful to me and other people! I know it's a controversial subject but we can all be mature here. Try to give reasonable opinions/facts, don't insult, and try to be nice about it! You can be respectful without lying.
    Thank you
    Edit: I ruined the title by pressing enter before I was done oh no-
    Last edited by Kingdomall; 07-18-2020 at 05:46 AM.

  2. #2
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    It's whatever works best for you. That's it, no drama or trolls.

    For me it's F/T an I raise prey.
    Last edited by 303_enfield; 07-18-2020 at 07:06 AM.

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  4. #3
    Registered User Igotsmallballs's Avatar
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    Re: The Hot Debate: Live vs f/t [

    I feed all mine f/t. If I had a very large collection I would probably breed rodents and feed live. There going to die either way. Although Iím not a big fan of hearing any squeals. I think you safely feed live if you are responsible about it.

    On a note. We rescued a bp not to long ago. We could tell by the owners pics. It was not kept well or responsible. My gf went to meet the seller. He was in his enclosure with a live mouse running around. She questioned them about the mouse. They said they had put it in overnight. My gf kept her composure as she noticed a scared on the side of the snake along with some stuck shed. The bp was being fed live twice a week. Each time with the mouse just thrown in there til consumed.

    Long story short. We week left her alone in a much better enclosure for about a week with the humidity at 70%. Sheíd blued up and shedded everything up. Ate a f/t mouse. She is doing fantastic now eating rat fuzzys once every 7-10 days and is starting to become more socialized every week. I donít know if Iím more proud of the bp or my gf for keeping her composure!

  5. #4
    BPnet Veteran Lord Sorril's Avatar
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    Re: The Hot Debate: Live vs f/t [

    Both methods if done properly can be effective at feeding your snake. As 303_enfield said: 'It's whatever works best for you.'
    *.* TNTC

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  7. #5
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    BP can be fed live safely since we are talking about BP, It's about being educated on various feeding technics so it can be done safely based on that particular species.

    It's not about scaring people with pictures or regurgitated stories that do not reflect responsible live feeding, it's not about judgement which pro F/T feeders pass to people that feed live yet you do not see that in reverse, and it's not about that never fed live or might have done it twice pushing their views based based on their limited experience.

    It's about hand on experience and EDUCATION

    I have probably fed over 50K of live feeders over the years with no issues, why? Because I feed what works and because there are rules and principals that can help ensure those results.

    So it is about what is safe for the animal (not all animals should be fed live), and convenient for the owner based on his knowledge and understanding (not all people should be feeding live either).

    Let's keep in mind that even feeding F/T can have risks if not done properly and just like with live those risk are minimum if fed responsibly. (NOTHING in life is risk free)

    My take is that I feed everything live, f/t, rats, mice that's what what a responsible snake owner does he does what needs to be done.

    At any giving time a snake may require live anyone not willing to feed live should not have a snake because it is part of snake ownership.

    .............

    I've heard a lot of horror stories of poor BPs that were lazily fed live rodents and left in their enclosure "until they got hungry
    That does not reflect responsible live feeding but careless owners that has no business owning a snake and those stories and fears are perpetuated by comments like this and it always start with "I heard horror stories"

    I completely understand wanting to give your snake a quality of life with stimulation
    Not why it's done, it's about feeding what works

    I understand having to breed your own rodents and sometimes being lazy to actually kill it
    don't insult


    What an assumption, again has nothing to do with it it's about feeding what works and let me tell you anyone that decides to breed rodents is far from being lazy even if only sometimes.

    The rodent can fight back or simply bite the snake because it's hungry (they're not very bright honestly, no more brighter than snakes though
    .And an hungry rodent should not be fed, again live feeding 101 and step to take when feeding live.

    When fed live the feeder will either not have the time to touch the enclosure's floor or it will and groom itself and fall asleep in a corner.
    Last edited by Stewart_Reptiles; 07-18-2020 at 11:11 AM.
    Deborah Stewart

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    Re: The Hot Debate: Live vs f/t [

    Quote Originally Posted by Stewart_Reptiles View Post
    BP can be fed live safely since we are talking about BP, It's about being educated on various feeding technics so it can be done safely based on that particular species.

    It's not about scaring people with pictures or regurgitated stories that do not reflect responsible live feeding, it's not about judgement which pro F/T feeders pass to people that feed live yet you do not see that in reverse, and it's not about that never fed live or might have done it twice pushing their views based based on their limited experience.

    It's about hand on experience and EDUCATION

    I have probably fed over 50K of live feeders over the years with no issues, why? Because I feed what works and because there are rules and principals that can help ensure those results.


    So it is about what is safe for the animal (not all animals should be fed live), and convenient for the owner based on his knowledge and understanding (not all people should be feeding live either).

    Let's keep in mind that even feeding F/T can have risks if not done properly and just like with live those risk are minimum if fed responsibly. (NOTHING in life is risk free)

    My take is that I feed everything live, f/t, rats, mice that's what what a responsible snake owner does he does what needs to be done.

    At any giving time a snake may require live anyone not willing to feed live should not have a snake because it is part of snake ownership.

    .............

    That does not reflect responsible live feeding but careless owners that has no business owning a snake and those stories and fears are perpetuated by comments like this and it always start with "I heard horror stories"

    Not why it's done, it's about feeding what works



    What an assumption, again has nothing to do with it it's about feeding what works and let me tell you anyone that decides to breed rodents is far from being lazy even if only sometimes.

    .And an hungry rodent should not be fed, again live feeding 101 and step to take when feeding live.

    When fed live the feeder will either not have the time to touch the enclosure's floor or it will and groom itself and fall asleep in a corner.
    For all the words you posted I'm unsure why you didn't elaborate on the bolded above...seems like the most important stuff.

  9. #7
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    Re: The Hot Debate: Live vs f/t [

    Quote Originally Posted by bns View Post
    For all the words you posted I'm unsure why you didn't elaborate on the bolded above...seems like the most important stuff.
    If you do a search you will see that I have detailed the keys of responsible live feeding MANY time on this forum over the years, this is not about the method itself whether live or f/t it's about the one vs another.

    But AGAIN here some of the important keys

    If you buy your feeders, feed them and give them water prior to feeding (allow 2 to 4 hours before feeding them off)

    Have a strong routine feed the same day each week.

    Leave the rodents nearby your snake enclosure, scenting will entice the snake to eat and will allow you to do the above if necessary.

    Know your snake and watch is body language, not need to offer food to an animal that is obviously not interested

    Do not feed an oversize prey item even the LARGEST BP (3000 grams and up) does not need anything bigger than a small/medium rat. Adult male will do well with a small rat.

    Do not stress the prey, do not taze or knock out the the prey. There is nothing more dangerous than an animal comming that is coming out of a daze and is disoriented.

    Feed your snake inside it's enclosure, monitor feeding and remove the prey if not eaten within 10 min.

    Do not leave a prey unattended.
    Last edited by Stewart_Reptiles; 07-18-2020 at 12:55 PM.
    Deborah Stewart

  10. #8
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    In my opinion, I think it's important for people to feed what works for them.


    I personally prefer to feed live, it's easier, has a higher success rate, and in the event that a snake turns down a meal I can set the rat free.
    It's always a heartwarming moment for me when I turn a rat loose outside, opposed to the dread of having to dispose of a F/T rodent.


    All too often I see people push the agenda that people who feed live are irresponsible, don't love their animals, have no compassion for feeders, have no business keeping reptiles in the first place and that feeding live WILL kill/permanently damage your snake, and that it's not a matter of "if" but "when".
    I find that in most cases this couldn't be further from the truth.

  11. #9
    BPnet Lifer rlditmars's Avatar
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    Re: The Hot Debate: Live vs f/t [

    I think Deborah nailed it. This debate shouldn't be debated. In the wild the snakes eat live, so live is obviously fine. But in the wild, the snake or prey can retreat if necessary and so the issues talked about don't normally come into play. The onus is on the owner to carry out what ever steps are necessary to accomplish the task of feeding live while making the snake's well being the first priority.

    The reason so many feed FT is sheer convenience. Most people don't want the extra work, expense, or trouble of raising their own prey. So FT is the "Drive Through Window" of snake feeding. It's widely accepted, convenient but still carries the responsibility of making certain it is carried out correctly with the snake's well being at the forefront.

    The other part of this debate is always rat vs mouse vs ASF, etc. The bottom line is that a calorie is a calorie. So if you're providing the same caloric value, it doesn't matter the vehicle of delivery.

    I have to feed both. I prefer to do FT but have a few picky animals that won't switch so I have to feed live. The only difference I have noticed and perhaps it is just my experience, is it seem the snakes that are live eaters have a slightly better body tone. Maybe it's like eating cooked vegetables compared to raw vegetables. The raw vegetables are supposed to contain more of the original nutrients.

    Just my $0.02

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  13. #10
    BPnet Senior Member Mr. Misha's Avatar
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    Re: The Hot Debate: Live vs f/t [

    Quote Originally Posted by JobForARetic View Post
    I personally prefer to feed live, it's easier, has a higher success rate, and in the event that a snake turns down a meal I can set the rat free.
    It's always a heartwarming moment for me when I turn a rat loose outside, opposed to the dread of having to dispose of a F/T rodent.
    Just my 2 cents, but you probably shouldn't be setting uneaten rats outside. At best, they're going to die because they were bred inside and aren't necessarily going to fend for themselves. At worst, you're creating an issue for yourself and your neighbors with a possible rat infestation.

    Why not keep the rat until next feed or get a rat garbage disposal, aka a Boa?
    0.1 Reg. BP Het. Albino (Faye),
    1.0 Albino BP (Henry),
    0.1 Pastave BP Het. Pied (Kira)
    1.0 Pied BP (Sam)
    1.0 Bumble Bee BP (Izzy)

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