New Member Looking For Suggestions and Info

[bns]

That's an interesting idea, and I like the concept of it. However, I'm not entirely sure I want to just... skip the tanks. The money doesn't bother me, and I'm a bit intimidated of jumping straight into a massive 4x2x2 with all the hardware that I'm just now researching. Maybe I'll feel more prepared for that by September/October, but right now the thought of managing something that huge does seem a bit... intimidating.

I'm not sure what your misgivings are about setting up an enclosure that is designed to work for snakes?

If the money doesn't bother you this is a no-brainer. The fish tank is far more work than a professionally built enclosure...no comparison at all.

Many people have raised boas from babies in many different ways and been successful by some measure...there is no debate about enclosures that I haven't discussed ad nauseam and I don't know of anyone who has been doing this for decades that would argue the theory over the results.

That being said, I'm totally okay moving into a larger cage sooner rather than later, but maybe not as the very first thing I'm trying to set up. I'm willing to modify the tanks as needed with locks and acrylic to make the environment more stable and secure.

You can modify the fish tanks all day and you will never create an environment that will be better for a baby boa than an opaque tub and the same is true for when the boa graduates from the tub...the fish tank will not compare with a proper enclosure.

I was actually spending a good amount of time looking into PVC cages last night to learn more, and trying to learn about the various elements of them. Do any of you know what it means when it says "recessed belly heat"? Is that just heat tape?

Yes.

I am just beginning to get into not just the basic knowledge but also what the best out there is, and what I'm looking to find that won't blow every cent I own. I'll need things like a thermostat, IR temp gun, hygrometers, etc. for any set up, so I'm looking into some brands and well recommended items. I see herpstat a lot, but 3 or so of those rack up pretty quick, and I'm not super sure about which brands to go with. Also, is there a particular difference between sliding glass and swing down doors?

Yep, you should have all those things.
Some folks like sliding doors. I like swing down doors...both can work fine.

I am curious about raising boas in tubs until they reach a certain size, rather than an aquarium, but I'm not quite sure how that would work. It would also limit visibility, which I would prefer to have on at least one side so that I could check on my baby snake daily without having to lift a lid off to see that it's alive and breathing alright....

Tubs work great for baby boas. New keepers can solve many issues by starting the boa off in tub.
On the visibility issue...this is your issue. A baby boa prefers low/no visibility and they live and breath just fine without you checking on them and actually do better with less involvement from you...especially when babies. The very best way to look at this enclosure deal is to forget your 'wants' and focus on what the baby boa 'needs'.

A baby boa is a simple thing. Its a living critter that wants to survive and will perform necessary life functions to make it survive if given the chance (this is why people get away with doing things half-arsed). It is also a complicated thing. It is small, vulnerable and nervous. It needs to be secure, feel secure. It doesn't want to be in the light or be seen...its goal is to hide and eat until it becomes large enough to remove itself from the bottom of the food chain. As they grow larger in our care they adapt and if kept properly can become quite bold. When they are young, stress is enough to kill a baby boa.

Set up the pro-built enclosure. Buy a tub of appropriate size with a lid. Read about making holes in the tub. Put some quality aspen bedding in the tub. Place a small water dish and a hide or two in the tub. Place the tub so about half of it is on the surface of the pro-built enclosure that has the heat tape under it. Take temp readings inside the tub and adjust as needed. -Nothing about doing all of that will seem like an type of a challenge as compared to the challenges you can face with a modified fish tank.

Good for you on doing the research before jumping in...bravo. You clearly want to be successful and I wish you luck.

[Caitlin]

Just an added note that I can see my baby Tarahumaras in their Sterilite tubs - the plastic is just cloudy enough that it partly blocks their view and I think helps them feel safer. If I really need to do a quick wellness check and take a closer look at them, I just pop the lid off of the tub and take a closer peek. For a daily/every-other-day wellness check, you'd end up disturbing them just as often in a fish tank because they'll be tucked into hides or under/behind clutter. It's not like the fish tank makes them all that much more visible.

I'm biased, though. I haven't used a fish tank for snakes for literally a couple of decades, and back then we didn't know any better. Sterilite tubs have been an absolute godsend in terms of providing an inexpensive, secure, and healthy environment for young snakes, and I've been so grateful to have them available. They're easy to clean, there's plenty of room for cork bark, cork rounds, hides, and artificial vines for clutter, and the little ones can feel safe and secure.

[Bogertophis]

Just to offer another view: I prefer glass tanks any day over plastic/acrylic enclosures (& yes, I've tried a couple), & I would NEVER house a snake in a tub for anything other than brumation (no heat applied to the plastic). The plastic most (or maybe all of you?) are using is not that stable nor is it meant for anything other than the storage of non-living things. Please do some 'homework' on plastic. Whatever your choice for housing a snake, you can make it work. Each way has it's own drawbacks.

[bns]

Just to offer another view: I prefer glass tanks any day over plastic/acrylic enclosures (& yes, I've tried a couple), & I would NEVER house a snake in a tub for anything other than brumation (no heat applied to the plastic). The plastic most (or maybe all of you?) are using is not that stable nor is it meant for anything other than the storage of non-living things. Please do some 'homework' on plastic. Whatever your choice for housing a snake, you can make it work. Each way has it's own drawbacks.

My enclosures are made from polypropylene, no BPA.

Used any ketchup, yogurt, medicine, drink anything from a bottle, clear food packaging?


I use food grade tubs.

[Zincubus]

I’ve had great success with all manner of vivariums ... they can all be fabulously effective and great looking .. just takes some research .


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[Mikknu]

First and foremost, I'd like to thank bns for the amazing explanation of your setups. A lot of my trepidation towards starting with such a large enclosure is that I simply dont understand them yet, and I already feel a lot better about that option after having it explained by you so nicely and thoroughly. The only snake I've ever helped care for was a corn snake in a glass aquarium, which I'm looking to get as much research as I can done so that I know what I'm getting into. I'm sure my thoughts, opinions, and plans will change at least a few times in the next half a year. The world is ever changing, after all, and we have to change with it.

That being said, there does seem to be a bit of a debate going on here. I'm not experienced enough yet to have an opinion; the likelihood is that I'll continue doing research until I determine what works the best for my snake, my budget, and my location at the time I'll be getting him. I can't possibly say what will happen in 6 months time; I'd like to think that I'll be continuing to live as I am now, and it's the assumption I believe most of us try to work upon, but who knows?

For plastic tubs- where do you get food grade tubs? I hadn't thought about needing specific kinds of plastic, to be honest. Is there a special place to look or order them? If you have just the plastic tub as their enclosure(without a surrounding PVC that is), are they as difficult or less difficult than an aquarium to keep stable?

For PVC cages- would it be possible/probable to simply start out with a smaller PVC cage? A local shop will take custom orders, and perhaps I could start with a 2'x2'x2' or so? That way I can have the more controlled environment, but meeting somewhere closer to my current comfort range for size of cage to regulate? I could also expand it when I needed to then, and it would be less difficult (and intimidating) for me to dial in a much larger enclosure with some PVC experience under my belt.

I've read that most boas do best on things like coconut fiber due to humidity- is this true for Sonorans as well? I know they come from a more desert-like environment, and I seem to be having a bit of difficulty finding a definitive care guide for them specifically.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond to all my questions. I really appreciate it, and I'm learning a lot about snake husbandry that I didn't know before.

[Mikknu]

A quick look at their facebook page tells me they offer smaller enclosures such as a 16"/18"/20" and a 24"/16"/12" off the bat. Would those(particularly the latter) work to house a very young Sonoran(they'll like be hatched over mid to late summer, and I'd be getting on in September)? They do custom orders as well, which I could inquire about. 16" is a bit of a weird number...

And to explain my misgivings with starting with an extremely large cage- first and foremost, I've never worked with anything larger than a 20L snake wise. Jumping from that into a 4x2x2 PVC is pretty scary to me; I dont feel I personally have the experience necessary to even set up an enclosure that big and keep it regulated. I understand they're designed for snakes, but I've never heard of them until I joined this website. As I learn more, I'm sure I'll grow more prepared and comfortable with the size of it.

[Bogertophis]

My enclosures are made from polypropylene, no BPA.

Used any ketchup, yogurt, medicine, drink anything from a bottle, clear food packaging?


I use food grade tubs.

When I tried a couple "plastic" enclosures they too were made of HDPE "food safe" material. Various reasons why I didn't care for them, but for me, snakes health is #1.

I'm not going to get into a debate here on this, BUT...just remember that none of those other uses you mention involve heating of those containers, much less CONSTANT heating of them in use. Just saying...it matters. Even frozen foods intended to be cooked in microwave say right ON them not to re-heat in those containers...why? Because heat breaks down plastics. (Cold is just fine, but last I checked, our snakes need heat.) Also, we humans are MUCH bigger than our snakes...and our bodies are more complex too, likely way more resilient when it comes to chemical contaminants, don't you think?

[bns]

...

For plastic tubs- where do you get food grade tubs? I hadn't thought about needing specific kinds of plastic, to be honest. Is there a special place to look or order them? If you have just the plastic tub as their enclosure(without a surrounding PVC that is), are they as difficult or less difficult than an aquarium to keep stable?

...

Buy tubs rated for food storage. I've purchased them at the grocery store...

When I tried a couple "plastic" enclosures they too were made of HDPE "food safe" material. Various reasons why I didn't care for them, but for me, snakes health is #1.

I'm not going to get into a debate here on this, BUT...just remember that none of those other uses you mention involve heating of those containers, much less CONSTANT heating of them in use. Just saying...it matters. Even frozen foods intended to be cooked in microwave say right ON them not to re-heat in those containers...why? Because heat breaks down plastics.

What snakes do you keep that you are heating the enclosures beyond about 95f?

Some plastics are not made to be heated to high temps. Some. Not all.
I use a vacuum sealer. Those bags are rated for microwave use and you can place them in boiling water to heat the contents.

(Cold is just fine, but last I checked, our snakes need heat.) Also, we humans are MUCH bigger than our snakes...and our bodies are more complex too, likely way more resilient when it comes to chemical contaminants, don't you think?

No, I think your assumption is incorrect.

You have a strong prejudice against plastics and want to lump them altogether ...they are not all the same.

[GoingPostal]

A quick look at their facebook page tells me they offer smaller enclosures such as a 16"/18"/20" and a 24"/16"/12" off the bat. Would those(particularly the latter) work to house a very young Sonoran(they'll like be hatched over mid to late summer, and I'd be getting on in September)? They do custom orders as well, which I could inquire about. 16" is a bit of a weird number...

And to explain my misgivings with starting with an extremely large cage- first and foremost, I've never worked with anything larger than a 20L snake wise. Jumping from that into a 4x2x2 PVC is pretty scary to me; I dont feel I personally have the experience necessary to even set up an enclosure that big and keep it regulated. I understand they're designed for snakes, but I've never heard of them until I joined this website. As I learn more, I'm sure I'll grow more prepared and comfortable with the size of it.

A smaller cage is fine if you don't mind having an extra cage around or can reuse it, everyone is simply attempting to save you from money and effort. There's honestly not much setup, in my pvc cages that size there is flexwatt heating underneath just like a heat mat and also a radiant heat panel. No matter what size cage you end up with the setup will be the same, place thermostat probes, set temps, adjust to what they need to be and check them regularly. It's just a whole lot more difficult when you are attempting to retrofit a glass aquarium. In a glass fish tank heat doesn't hold well, unless your ambient room temps are quite tropical you'll likely need to add a heat lamp. Those are riskier and harder to control temps on. They also suck humidity like crazy. To solve that most people cover all the air flow (already poor in an aquarium) and either mist very frequently or keep wet substrate. That's upping your chances of a respiratory issue. Stability and security is what your baby boa will need. Get what's best for the animal, not for yourself.