New Member Looking For Suggestions and Info

[Caitlin]

I wanted one of the dwarf Boa varieties for a long time and finally settled on the Tarahumara Mountain Boa. I don't have experience with any of the other dwarf varieties, and I am a new Tarahumara owner - just wanted to be clear that I am far from an expert in these guys. I got my pair from Michael Beach in Oregon, who has been breeding the Tarahumara and other dwarf varieties since 2004 or so. I'll copy/paste his Boa breeding list below. He's really a pleasure to deal with. My Tarahumara were from a September 2019 litter, and I paid $685 for the pair, which included shipping costs.

I settled on Tarahumara because of their size (the smallest Boas), generally sweet temperament, and the fact that they are not a particularly demanding species (they don't need high humidity and they are fine with a wide temperature range) thanks to their evolutionary history in a rather harsh mountainous environment. Plus I think they are really a pretty snake, but I think that about most snakes, lol.

I have been really delighted with them. They are confident and curious, have great appetites, and while they hiss like crazy when I first pick them up, they are all hiss and no bite. They settle down beautifully and will just sit loosely coiled around my hand for quite some time. When they do explore, it's slow and leisurely - these are just not squirmy, panicky snakes, even as babies. I like that they don't stay in their hides all of the time - I often see them out and about, or just lounging on the big cork rounds I have in their quarantine enclosures.

Looking at their parents, I'd say the male, and even the female, may eventually not need more than a 3' long enclosure. I'm still planning on a 4' for each of them, as they are active. I also want to give them room to have some branches; they seem to enjoy a bit of climbing.

I'll include Michael's contact info along with his breeding list below.

Michael Beach: Woodcliff Herps on Facebook. He advertises on Fauna Classifieds.
woodclif5169@gmail.com
(503) 288-4684

Boa breeding list (this is from 2019. I am not sure of 2020 status on all these; you'll have to ask him)


BOAS All Pure Locale / No Morphs


Hog Island Bi (Lloyd Lemke / Vin Russo / Sears)
Crawl Cay Bc (Rio Bravo / Vin Russo)
Tarahumara Sonoran Bi (Rio Bravo)
Corn Island / Islas del Maiz Bi (Rio Bravo)
Paraguanera Venezualean Penninsula Bi (Rio Bravo)
Barranquilla Colombian Bi True Colombian (Rio Bravo)
Sabogae Pearl Island Bs (Vin Russo)
Bolivian Amarali - Silverbacks Ba (Joe Terry 1987 Blood)
Longicauda / Peruvian Long Tail Bl (Vin Russo)
Peruvian Pucallpa locale Bc (Rio Bravo & Blast)
Peruvian Iquitos locale Bc (Jim Pomaville AND a brand new unrelated Import bloodline)
Surinam Bc (FLRT, Futo, Sipperly, WC, Belnap)
Surinam Bc Pure Pokigron locale (Rio Bravo)
Trinidad Bc Pure Trinidad locale (Rob Tudehope)
VenezuelanBc (Rio Bravo)
Dwarf Dumerils Boas Acrantophis dumerili (Prato dwarf bloodline 4+ft. MAX)
Brazilian Rainbow Boas Epicrates cenchria (8 totally unrelated bloodlines)

I am obviously biased but I just don't think you can go wrong with the Tarahumara.

[WrongPython]

I have two semi-dwarf boas -- a Sonoran boa and a Peruvian long-tailed boa -- and I adore them both! The Sonoran is sweet as a corn snake, while the long-tail is a little more reserved. Both can be fairly hissy as babies before developing into mellow adults. The long-tailed boas are probably out of your price range (most start at $30-400), but you should be able to find many nice Sonorans for $250 or under. I highly recommend hypo het. leopard Sonorans! Both of those localities are fairly forgiving of husbandry mistakes, so they make great, hardy first boas (something I can say from experience).

I've started both boas out in a 20L and they had plenty of room. The Sonoran got bumped up to a 4'x2'x2' early (and is doing fine with plenty of hides) and the long-tail will probably be in the 20L for another year or so.

I've heard about more than a few negative experiences with LLL, XYZ, and Snakes at Sunset, so I would steer clear of them if I were you. It's best to get your boa directly from the breeder if you can. Vin and Tommy are both great; I got my Sonoran from Vin, and I've never had any serious issues with her. If you want a long-tail, look to Allison Theus, AKA Crispysnakes. Warren Booth (his Facebook page is Boa Booth) is also a great source for Central American boas.

Let me know if you have any other questions -- I'd be happy to help. Good luck!

[Mikknu]

Thanks for your responses!

To preface this, there is a Nebraska reptile expo at the end of September. September 27th, if I remember correctly. I've been on their facebook page and the vendor page, and there will be boas at the show from two breeders. One who will hopefully be bringing Sonorans, and another who will be bringing a variety of Central Americans. I'd love to get my snakes at the expo, that way I can interact with them directly. I'm thinking about asking the one if he knows what localities specifically he'll have, but I doubt people know yet. It's a bit early to know I suppose.

I'll be sure to look into spotted pythons! The above show is python centric, especially balls, so there's a good chance I could find one of those there too!

Caitlin, I've seen your Tarahumara posts and you're actually the reason I found the snakes! Your snakes are gorgeous, and I really like them.

Unfortunately, I have also learned that peruvians are forbidden at the reptile expo, which likely means they're forbidden in my city as well. I'll have to do a bit more looking into it. The stipulations for Nebraska are simply " not venomous" and "not eight plus feet". It isn't very clear as to what's allowed in and what's not, to be honest.

In the spirit of looking into Sonorans a bit more, what experiences do people have with their temperaments, humidity levels, exploration, etc.? Do they like to climb? To burrow? Handling? Being around others? Eating habits? I know there are a few localities under "Sonoran", and really it depends on the individual snake, but any advice is welcome!

[Caitlin]

It never hurts to ask a breeder how their pairings are going - by now they should have a good idea of which snakes they can expect offspring from. So an initial inquiry with a breeder you know is planning to be at the expo, plus a followup around July may help. I'd stay on top of it if I were you; the dwarf varieties seem to sell fast. I know Vin Russo told me that when he announces his Tarahumara babies they are usually sold out in 15 minutes. I have faith you will get connected with the right breeder and the right snake, though!

Breeders obviously don't want to be peppered with questions from window shoppers, but I've found they respond really positively to a polite, serious, specific inquiry. One other thing to consider in terms of your planning is the possibility that COVID19 restrictions may impact the expo. My regional expo is also at the end of September and there is at least preliminary discussion of that possibility. Don't despair if you end up not being able to make face-to-face contact with a breeder. Michael made himself very much available to me by email and phone, and we've had multiple conversations about how things are going with these babies. You'll find that a good breeder will welcome knowing how things are going with their snakes, and they will be there to offer info and support.

I'm so glad you have enjoyed the Tarahumara posts I've made so far. I really love these little guys and am delighted to inflict more photos and stories about them on anyone who will listen. I'm also a huge fan of the spotted/stimson's/children's pythons - I have two - and agree that you might really enjoy having one of those as well. But I understand the enchantment with the Dwarf Boas, and look forward to hearing about how things go with your search.

[WrongPython]

I hate to be a downer, but I would mentally prepare for the September expo to be cancelled. The COVID-19 crisis won't be going away any time soon and social distancing measures may well be necessary for the rest of the year, if not longer.

That's not to say you wouldn't be able to get your boa, though! You'll probably just have to order any supplies you need online and potentially have your new boa shipped directly from the breeder. The shipping situation is a tad spotty right now, but not prohibitive. If you're uncomfortable buying a boa online without handling it first, do take the time to wait until expos re-start so you can pick out your snake in person. This is an animal you'll have for 20-30+ years, so make sure you're happy with the one you get!

Regarding Sonorans: as I said earlier, I adore mine! My female is particularly sweet, curious, and outgoing. She's a very active hunter and will cruise around her entire 4'x2'x2' when she's hungry and looking for food. She stuck to her hides for most of the winter, but is out more often during the day now that spring is here. She regularly hauls herself up to her basking shelf and has been using her other climbing ledges lately. I'm sure she'd use any climbing branches I'd give her -- I was actually planning on buying some at the next expo I went to, but COVID. She's not a burrower, though, and will only nestle down into her substrate a little when she's under a cork flat.

She was a bit shy with the occasional hiss when I brought her home at a month old, but she's very mellow now. Her temperament reminds me of a corn snake I worked with in the past. I've heard that others that Sonorans can be much hissier (and maybe feistier) as babies, but it seems to be more hiss than bite. I can count on one hand the number of time my girl tried to tag me, and most of them were food-related.

A 10-14 day feeding schedule would be appropriate for a young Sonoran. They don't grow as quickly as hybrid morph boas, and as such shouldn't be given as much food. My girl picked up a little bit of pudge and seemed to grow a bit too quickly on a 7-10 day feeding schedule, but has since become nice and trim and is on a roughly 14 day schedule.

Just so you know, there aren't any localities under "Sonoran." Sonoran is a locality of Boa sigma itself; the other B. sigma locality just so happens to be Tarahumara! There are a few Sonoran morphs out there, though. Said morphs are hypo, leopard (the morph originated in Sonorans), and anery (which is pretty rare on the market; the only person I know of who has them is Warren Booth, who first bred the morph). The world's only known pied boa is also B. sigma, but I'm not sure of the locality (and they won't be on the market for quite some time).

I think you'd love a Sonoran boa! They're wonderful boas and totally underrated in my opinion. If you have any additional questions, feel free to PM me. My Sonoran girl also has her own thread here, so feel free to check it out!

[Bogertophis]

I agree that the September expo is likely going to be cancelled. It's a lot of fun & a LOT of temptation to attend these things...especially for a fairly new snake owner, it's
nice to see things in person & meet the breeders...BUT, as thoroughly explained above, if the expo is cancelled due to COVID-19, make early contacts with breeders and
look at the bright side: these days mites are often shared when people handle the snakes from one breeder to another, so even IF you buy from a great source, they're
still a risk when buying at an expo, whereas buying from a GOOD breeder & having it shipped to you, you should not be getting mites...so that's a "plus".

[richardhind1972]

I'm not sure why Peruvian longtail shouldn't be banned as a proper boa imperata longicauda (Bil) was boa constrictor longicauda (bcl) rarely reaches 6ft my male is about 4.5ft and female is under 5.5ft both 4 yrs old so adults now and not girthy.
Peruvian bcc will reach that as its one of the larger true red tail pure locality boas

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Mikknu]

Alas, I know the expo is likely cancelled. I'm well aware of that. To my joy though, the lady who has Sonorans is actually a local breeder, maybe about a 30, 40 minute drive from where I live. I definitely think I'd be able to go pick my snake up in person, though it might be more of a hand off situation.

The breeder also makes PVC cages, which is awesome. Her cages look great, and come with all the bits and bobbles too. So even if I dont buy from her, I'll probably one day get a cage from her.

I'm also not sure why Peruvian BCIs are banned, I can understand the Peruvian BCC, but that's what I was told. Perhaps they misunderstood?

Thank you so much WrongPython for all that information! I'm going to go read your Sonoran's thread right after this. It really was so informative, I can't thank you enough!

I messaged the other breeder, but I haven't received a response. The Sonoran was my original first choice snake, so I'm surprised and really happy to have found a breeder so close. I'll be getting an update and pictures when they're born, which will be cool. It wont be for quite a while though.

[bns]

You want to get the enclosure right...I've done it many ways over the last several decades and this is what I do.

Buy the enclosure you will put the boa in when he is an adult right now. There are many good manufacturers of plastic enclosures...Skip the fish tanks, they are a waste of time, money and require managing that a new keeper can screw up at the expense of the boa's health.

Set up the large enclosure with a temp controller using under cage heat. Then buy a small tub (the size the breeder is currently using for the snake you choose makes things that much easier). Place this tub inside the large enclosure so one end of it is above the undercage heat (you are going to use the large enclosure to make the environmentals for the tub, experiment with this until the warm side temp is at the proper level inside the tub. Do this before buying the snake. After a several months of this working well with the new boa I would up the size of the tub. After a year or so, set up the large enclosure like you want it and leave the lid on the tub cracked open one evening and let the snake check things out on his schedule. If the boa seems very secure and things are going well, you could move up the timeline some.

This is the easist way for the boa...and by default, you.

[Mikknu]

That's an interesting idea, and I like the concept of it. However, I'm not entirely sure I want to just... skip the tanks. The money doesn't bother me, and I'm a bit intimidated of jumping straight into a massive 4x2x2 with all the hardware that I'm just now researching. Maybe I'll feel more prepared for that by September/October, but right now the thought of managing something that huge does seem a bit... intimidating.

That being said, I'm totally okay moving into a larger cage sooner rather than later, but maybe not as the very first thing I'm trying to set up. I'm willing to modify the tanks as needed with locks and acrylic to make the environment more stable and secure. I was actually spending a good amount of time looking into PVC cages last night to learn more, and trying to learn about the various elements of them. Do any of you know what it means when it says "recessed belly heat"? Is that just heat tape? I am just beginning to get into not just the basic knowledge but also what the best out there is, and what I'm looking to find that won't blow every cent I own. I'll need things like a thermostat, IR temp gun, hygrometers, etc. for any set up, so I'm looking into some brands and well recommended items. I see herpstat a lot, but 3 or so of those rack up pretty quick, and I'm not super sure about which brands to go with. Also, is there a particular difference between sliding glass and swing down doors?

I am curious about raising boas in tubs until they reach a certain size, rather than an aquarium, but I'm not quite sure how that would work. It would also limit visibility, which I would prefer to have on at least one side so that I could check on my baby snake daily without having to lift a lid off to see that it's alive and breathing alright.

There are also a bunch of other acronyms I'm still figuring out too xD Such as the 1.0/0.1 and so on. I think I saw a list of them somewhere on this site, but I'm not sure where to find it again...