This just blows my mind...

[SatanicIntention]

I was just reading on an unnamed forum and came across an ADMIN'S reply about Ball Python care... It absolutely astounded me how someone could come across as being so blatantly stupid. If this offends anyone, I'm sorry, but telling someone to keep their snakes like this is just going to kill an animal or make it where the animal never wants to eat... I would appreciate some comments on this. How in the world can a person with a complete disregard for a snake's basic husbandry be made an Administrator? Here are some quotes.

"All ball python caresheets suck. I've never seen a good one. Being the most commonly kept boid in the US pettrade, it apparently attracted the most noob herp keepers to the keyboard to write caresheets. Since so many people assume that anything published on the internet is gospel truth, these caresheets spread like wildfire. For the record, NO BALL PYTHON THAT ISN"T GRAVID EVER NEEDS OR WANTS A 90 DEGREE BASKING SPOT. 83-84 hot side max...anything down to the low to mid 70s for the cool side. If they have that gradient, they will move around and thermoregulate. Even the finicky wild caughts that never eat for people, will eat within 30 days if they are set up properly. If you provide a 90 degree basking spot, you take away half the cage for the snake because it will never go there. They don't like high temps and will avoid them staying all the time at their true basking temp over on the cool side and then never get a chance to go cool off anywhere unless they have yet another cooler side...which most don't. Luckily though, they are fairly idiotproof in that they adapt well to our errors and are really hard to kill. You can't even really starve one to death since they can go years without eating lol (please don't try this at home kids). For most setups, ball pythons do not need much heating. Just a heatpad on one end of the tank with a hide with a surface temp no higher than the high 80s or whatever it takes to get the air temp one inch above the substrate to 83-84 (I would even stretch this to say that anything above 80 and below 85 is plenty warm enough)...and a hide and waterbowl on the cool side...no lights, no che, no preheat and bake device of any kind. Even though they come from Africa in places where it gets really hot, they stay cool in the wild by going underground. Burrows stay cool. They come out to hunt at night...again, it's much cooler then. They don't play in the scortching sun. Please don't scortch them in their cages."

And also:
" btw...all snakes do better with a night drop in temp. If they are kept in such a way that they can find a comfortable spot to remain 24/7, they will do that and become sedentary. Sedentary snakes develop digestive issues and lose muscle mass from lack of excercise. Cooling at night, even if just a little, requires them to move around in the morning to thermoregulate which helps them move their bowels and keeps their muscle tone."

Ok... Oh my holy snake poo in a handbasket... Why?

[frankykeno]

Blew mine too when I read it Becky. What can I say....*just shakes head in disbelief somedays*


~~Jo~~

[Adam_Wysocki]

Someone please PM me a link ... I'd love to take some time out of my day to drop some knowledge on this moron ... everyone around here is so dead on with ball python care that it's been ages since I've given a good cyber spankin!!!

-adam

[daniel1983]

Someone please PM me a link ...

Me too!

[tigerlily]

Oh my!! Watch out ... Adam's on the rampage! I hope you're not too out of practice with those cyber spankin's.

Becky I can't believe idiots like that are allowed out of their cages.

[frankykeno]

The sad thing Christie is that idiot is an Admin on that site and therefore his posts will tend to carry more weight to a newcomer.

Cyber spanks to begin gentlemen! I'm far too gone on cold meds to form complete and appropriately worded posts to be of much good tonight!


~~Jo~~

[recycling goddess]

okay, as a newbie to snakes and just learning... would any of you like to pick this apart, point by point and put in the correct info?

[Adam_Wysocki]

OK, since you asked ...

"All ball python caresheets suck. I've never seen a good one. Being the most commonly kept boid in the US pettrade, it apparently attracted the most noob herp keepers to the keyboard to write caresheets.

This is opinion, not fact ... and I am sure that most in the ball python community wouldn't consider Kevin McCurley, Ralph Davis, Tracy Barker, and The Sutherlands "noob herp keepers" ... they all have ball python care sheets that are quite good.

For the record, NO BALL PYTHON THAT ISN"T GRAVID EVER NEEDS OR WANTS A 90 DEGREE BASKING SPOT.

Wrong. I have over 250 ball pythons all set up with one side of their enclosures at 82-84 degrees and the other at 92-94 ... they all thermoregulate between the two sides and spending approximately 60% of their time on the warm side and 40% of their time on the cool side on normal day and 85% - 95% of their time on the warm side for the 2 days immediately following a feeding. They definitely seem to "WANT" a 90+ degree basking spot in my collection.

83-84 hot side max...anything down to the low to mid 70s for the cool side.

In my experience, temps in the 70's frequently lead to upper and lower respiratory infections and fasting. In the 25 years I've been keeping ball pythons, I've learned the hard way that they do better the warmer they are kept ... 82-84 on one side, 92-94 on the other.

They don't like high temps and will avoid them staying all the time at their true basking temp over on the cool side

Not my experience at all ... all of my 250+ ball pythons spend time on the hot side ... as well as the ball pythons I've observed first hand in the collections of some of the biggest ball python breeders in the world.

You can't even really starve one to death since they can go years without eating lol (please don't try this at home kids).

Absolutely not true ... ball pythons can and will die of malnurishment ... that's a fact. A otherwise healthy ball python can fast for an extremely long time and survive, but that fasting is the result of a husbandry issue ... too cool. A ball python kept the correct way (82-84 on one side, 92-94 on the other) is not likely to fast for any extended period of time.

For most setups, ball pythons do not need much heating.

Not true. All of the top ball python breeders on the planet keep their snakes set up with a basking spot. We're talking people with thousands of ball pythons in their collective collections. If they didn't need much heating, why would these breeders work so hard at providing hot spots? Because they like paying electrical bills?

Even though they come from Africa in places where it gets really hot, they stay cool in the wild by going underground. Burrows stay cool. They come out to hunt at night...again, it's much cooler then. They don't play in the scortching sun. Please don't scortch them in their cages."

Ambient air temps in their burrows have been measured at 82 - 86 degrees. Night time ambient air temps in west africa are also in the low 80's. Ball pythons are frequently observed basking during the day as well as laying on hot surfaces (rocks, roads, etc) in the evening in their native habitat.

" btw...all snakes do better with a night drop in temp. If they are kept in such a way that they can find a comfortable spot to remain 24/7, they will do that and become sedentary.

Again, I don't know about other snakes, but not true for ball pythons. With the exception of a small group of breeders, none of my 250+ ball pythons have any type of night time drop and never have. They thermoregulate during the day and cruise their cages at night. They are far from sedentary.

Sedentary snakes develop digestive issues and lose muscle mass from lack of excercise.

My collection is vet checked at least every 12 months and I have never had one snake with digestive issues or loss of muscle mass ... and like I said, no nighttime drop.

Cooling at night, even if just a little, requires them to move around in the morning to thermoregulate which helps them move their bowels and keeps their muscle tone."

With temps of 82-84 on one side and 92-94 on the other, they will thermoregulate just fine. There is no need for any type of night time drop.

But don't take my word for it, look at the pros. People that make their living breeding ball pythons ... people with 1,000+ ball pythons in their collections worth millions of dollars ... they provide basking spots in the low 90's and ambients in the low 80's and unless they are breeding, no night time drops .... who do you think knows better about ball python care ... people with millions of dollars worth of snakes or some tool with a over inflated ego and a petco ball python playing god on a message board? ... Your call.

-adam

[amg20102006]

Very good Adam Also you never returned one of my emails.

[Adam_Wysocki]

Very good Adam Also you never returned one of my emails.

Check your inbox! ... I was running around all day getting ready for turkey tomorrow ... just got into email now.

-adam