My poor angel got burned

[O'Mathghamhna]

I took her to the vet within hours of discovering the burn--she is on antibiotics and pain meds, and I am treating the burn itself with SSD and clorhexidine flushes daily per the vet's recommendation.

I am posting for a few reasons--to remind folks that if they use heat lamps, to really monitor those temps, especially when whether fluctuates like it does in certain areas in the winter time. I live in Florida, and it's nothing for us to go from freezing temps to temps in the 70s within the same day, let alone the same week. I've had my sweet girl for 6 years now and she's never had problems with the heat lamp, but the other day she curled up on the hide on the warm side, which pushed her too close to the metal grate that the heat lamp is on the other side of. I noticed Friday night she had this bubble on her back (a burn), and I practically had a heart attack. The temps on the warm side INSIDE her tank don't get above 92, but when I used the thermal UV laser gun and measured the TOP of the metal grate (the side the lamp is over), the temps were a scorching 160 degrees. I couldn't sleep that night, and took her to the vet as soon as the vet got in (luckily only about 8 hours later, and I gave the snake metacam in the meantime and of course, adjusted the lamp). I want to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else's baby: make sure you are monitoring and adjusting their lamps as necessary if you use them. I didn't think this could happen to my snake, but it did happen. The lamp is was in an acceptable spot for a 37 degree day like today, but when it got up into the 70s a few days ago, the lamp was too close, and my snake suffered for it. She is expected to make a full recovery and the vet said it's definitely not the worst she's seen, and most people don't notice burns for weeks, so I'm thankful I at least discovered it that day, but I still feel just horrible and terribly ashamed.

Anyway, the other reason I am posting is I would like to do away with the lamp altogether. She does have a heating pad under the tank, of course regulated by a thermostat, and has never had belly burns (knock on wood). I have a 5' PVC enclosure in which she is housed, and I'm wondering with this kind of setup what you would recommend: RHP or Flexwatt? I worry about them permeating the thick layer of PVC. Do I need probes to check the heat they put out, or will my existing thermo/hygrometers be sufficient? Thanks in advance for any advice--and for any stories you have on dealing with burns. I have very thick skin and genuinely want the absolute best for my snake, so please don't worry about coming off abrasive---ANY advice/shaming is welcome (lol). Thanks in advance guys. Pics of my current setup below (note--the 66% you're seeing on the cool side is the humidity. The temp was at 73 because I had just opened the tank to refresh the water bowl, hidden behind the greenery in the front):

[wnateg]

Generally, for pvc enclosures, RHP's the best choice. They don't get crazy hot to the touch like bulbs, among other things. And it would go inside of the enclosure, so you don't need to worry about it getting through the PVC. All heat sources need regulated via thermostat, including a bulb (you could use a dimmer for a bulb, but there's more risk).

[Bogertophis]

I agree with wnateg, your lamp should have been regulated, either thermostat (best!) or dimmer (rheostat) + close observation (more risk but better than nothing).

I'm so glad you caught it early...& glad you're sharing this humbling boo-boo, as many others are making the same one, I can assure you.

Incidentally, since we're talking about "best practices" anyway, those tree bark "hides" are suitable only as added cage furnishings...being open-ended on both sides,
as well as being fairly "tall", they don't offer the cozy feel that BPs really want & need. The best hides offer some "back pressure" (snug feel from fairly low ceiling)
and have only one doorway, just big enough for (snake + meal) to easily enter. I'm glad your "angel" was eating, some other BPs may not have in this set-up shown.
All the best...

[Craiga 01453]

Thank you so much for sharing this. It's gotta be tough for you. But it's a great learning experience and others can hopefully learn from your mistake.

This is why it's so important to regulate ALL heat sources.

I would definitely look into a RHP. I have them in my PVC enclosures and now that I have them I'll never buy another heat lamp. But, obviously it'll have to be regulated. You could actually do away with the belly heat if you go with an RHP too. RHPs make it very easy to set up a proper temp gradient. You could even use the thermostat that's currently attached to your UTH so one less thing to buy.

And I do have to agree with Bogertophis, those half log hides are unfortunately not a great choice. BPs crave security and those hides offer next to none.

Again, thank you for sharing this unfortunate situation so others can learn the importance of regulating ALL heat sources. I wish you and your snake all the best.

[Midwest]

I think everyone agrees that heat sources need to be regulated, but I think in this case (if I'm understanding it correctly) it was more due to set up. If I'm looking at the picture right the BP was coiled up on the hide on the left and it's back was touching the mesh top directly under the heat lamp. If that is correct, even if the heat lamp was regulated by a stat, as soon as the temps got low enough for the lamp to kick on it would have burnt her. I guess unless the temps in the house are completely unregulated I was confused how the outside temps you mentioned have/had any impact on how hot the mesh top gets when the heat lamp is on. I hope this doesn't come off as me being argumentative or contradictory, I'm new to this as well and trying to learn everything I can.

[Cheesenugget]

I don't really understand what outside temps have to do with the indoor room temp. I live in FL, maybe you are further north? We are going through cooler nights (60-70) until Wed or Thurs. Inside your home would be around 77-80F room temp unless you lowered the AC because a lot of Floridians love it cold inside their homes. In other words, a room temp of 77F would have been acceptable so you should not have to do anything really, just know your temps. I turn the heater on in my house set at 77F When I see the temps dropping to 75F or less which started on Sat.

Secondly, I use basking lights for my lizards. The temps are at 98F for my beardie and 90F for my skink. Even if my house gets cold before I turn the heater on, the basking light temp was not affected at all. I do not use thermostats on the lights (Must use for snakes).

Anyways, keep an eye out for pus and signs of infection. You can buy dog bowls, plastic plant dishes or use small cardboard boxes as better hides than those half logs and they are cheaper or free too. Just make sure it fits your snake without leaving too much space in between.

[ballpythonsrock2]

I agree, the heat lamp (and all heat sources) needs to be on a thermostat, but as midwest said sounds like the problem would have been anyway. To me the problem is (please forgive me if I'm wrong) but the snake was able to get up too high next to the lamp. Some people don't even use stands and put the heat dome right on the mesh and don't burn they're snakes. I had mine on the mesh.

Your hides sound like they are very high up. I like the black plastic hides that are about 3 inches high which reptile basics sells when the snake is on it they don't get high enough to be that close to above heat lights. I use an infrared to moniter the top of the hide temps. You found how hot it is up where you said it was 160 degree's so you must see the need to make sure the snake can't get up close to that hot area. You might want to get lower hides. Most people have belly burns on their snakes. I would think a snake would not stay up by the heat like that and get burned but I guess it can happen. Sorry to hear it, I know you didn't mean for that to happen.
Link to the hides I am talking about easy to clean and snakes really like em.

https://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes


I see now the cage isn't very high up. Uhmm

[O'Mathghamhna]

Thanks SO much to all for your input! I learn something each time I come to this website, and I can now address the issue of the hides in addition to temps. I didn't even realize they were insufficient, so thanks for that input as well!

As many stated, yes, the lamp is over the metal grate and the hide is under the grate. I've since moved the hide so it's not directly under the grate and I'm ordering RHPs as we speak!

One more question I do have is what wattage of RHP do y'all recommend for my size of enclosure? My BP is a little over 5'.

I don't really understand what outside temps have to do with the indoor room temp. I live in FL, maybe you are further north? We are going through cooler nights (60-70) until Wed or Thurs. Inside your home would be around 77-80F room temp unless you lowered the AC because a lot of Floridians love it cold inside their homes. In other words, a room temp of 77F would have been acceptable so you should not have to do anything really, just know your temps. I turn the heater on in my house set at 77F When I see the temps dropping to 75F or less which started on Sat.

Yes, I live in North Florida--our temps go between freezing and 70s sometimes in the same day. This causes the inside of our house to fluctuate quite a bit. Room temp goes anywhere from mid-60s to high 70s, and we regulate our house with heat and AC depending on the day. It just changes so frequently. :/

Thanks again, all!

[Cheesenugget]

The thing is with basking bulbs which is commonly used and sold for reptile keeping, is that it is meant for basking (Concentrated high temps while made to resist high heat to last longer -That's why basking bulbs life are shorter than a regular white light), you can get fluctuating temps throughout the day regardless of the outdoor temp. Example, I use a 50 watts bulb for my skink, who can't climb and his basking spot is about 14-16 inch away from the mesh/bulb. From the back of the lizard, the temp measures at 90F most of the day but can be 88F to 93F throughout the day. You measure the temp NOT by only the surface of the substrate, but also the surface of where your reptile will receive heat. While lamps can be a great source of heating, they need to be more controlled. Lizards don't run into this problem because they move when they are warm enough, so cool ends are important to them.

Snakes, on the other hand, as noted by reptile expert and veterinarian Dr. Mader, they are derps and would not move when it gets too hot. Naturally, snakes don't run into this problem in the wild because they would either be hiding somewhere dark and cool, hunting/moving usually in tall grass and trees where there is plenty of shade, or bask at the dawn or dusk briefly or in the shade where they feel safer than out in the open.

Again, keep a close eye out on burn injuries. They are nastier than first glance. You probably won't know the depth of the damage until days later or the vet finding them out for you. Staving off infection and providing pain relief, if available from the vet, is top priority.

[O'Mathghamhna]

Exactly Cheesenugget--the vet said by her next shed we should know how extensive the damage is, and her eyes were cloudy when the burn happened, so it should be any day now. We are doing pain meds daily and antibiotic injections every 3 days, with daily topical SSD and Clorhex flushes. I have a follow up in a few weeks but of course will take her in sooner if I notice her deteriorating. I will keep y'all posted.

Can't edit my previous post, but I went ahead and got the 80 watt RHP with a VE-300 thermostat and 2 of Reptile Basic's jumbo hide boxes. I read in their recommendations that the 80 watt would work best with the dimensions of my PVC enclosure (31.5 inches between the square dip for the heat lamp and the end of the tank, 23.75' deep, 18' tall, and it's actually 48' long, not 72' as I originally thought). Thanks all!