Are ASF worth breeding as feeders?

[AzJohn]

I was thinking of breeding ASF to feed my snakes. I’m just starting to breed ball python, my male has locked with three girls the last few weeks. Wanting to have a reliable supply of feeders and doing some research led me to the conclusion that I should breed ASF for my personal collection, with the understanding that I would use rats and mice with any babies I produce and wish to sell. When I went to the only pet store I could find selling ASF, the owner basically tried to talk me out of having anything to do with ASF.

His reasons.
1. They are a pain, and will cross the cage just to bite you.
2. Snakes eating ASF won’t eat anything else.
3. No one will be interested in buying a snake that is eating ASF for the reasons mentioned above.
4. ASF are more difficult to breed because of social/territorial behaviors and short breeding life’s.
5. He won’t sell females.

Despite all this, I’m still interested due to the reported benefits. Are they worth it?

[Moose84]

I was thinking of breeding ASF to feed my snakes. I’m just starting to breed ball python, my male has locked with three girls the last few weeks. Wanting to have a reliable supply of feeders and doing some research led me to the conclusion that I should breed ASF for my personal collection, with the understanding that I would use rats and mice with any babies I produce and wish to sell. When I went to the only pet store I could find selling ASF, the owner basically tried to talk me out of having anything to do with ASF.

His reasons.
1. They are a pain, and will cross the cage just to bite you.
2. Snakes eating ASF won’t eat anything else.
3. No one will be interested in buying a snake that is eating ASF for the reasons mentioned above.
4. ASF are more difficult to breed because of social/territorial behaviors and short breeding life’s.
5. He won’t sell females.

Despite all this, I’m still interested due to the reported benefits. Are they worth it?

One of my buddies had a breeder size gene packed male that he paid a LOT of money for that went off food for long time. Tried everything with rat sizes, hides, mice you name it.. Took a SF when he got his hands on one.. I don't know anything about the little suckers other than they are mean as sin and some states they are illegal to own/breed. Knock on wood, live mice have always broke my strikers. If you have someone you can get to within a decent drive I would probably say utilize them on an as needed basis. I agree with number 3 though. The chances of people buying an animal that isn't over the moon who only take soft furs is low. If you pump out some 3-4 gene animals that are rare that bigger breeders want than I would say the chances are higher. Hobby breeders and pet owners probably won't touch it.

[rufretic]

My one breeder friend breeds mice, rats and asf on a pretty large scale and I can tell you some of the pet store reasons are not always accurate. I only know one person that breeds asf but he breeds thousands and if his are any indication of what is normal, I have no idea why asf have such a bad rep for being mean, his are by far the nicest and produce the most offspring. Now he did start his group's with pet quality animals so it's possible he just has nonaggression lines. But the breeding as far as how hard and how much they produce should be comparable to any other line. The only valid point is it will be harder to sell hatchlings that are on asf so I would recommend using them to feed your personal collection only. That is also what my buddy does, he has 100s of snakes and he can keep up with feeding his collection on the asf alone, then he sells all extras and his other rodents. Then the snakes he intends to sell, he feeds mice and rats.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Nope mice and rats a re lot easier and snakes in my experience will take them more readily than ASF none of my animals never touch an ASF even after being offered multiple time.

[303_enfield]

I raise them.

If you don't handle them they are demons. Cull all the biters after the young are 21 days old an keep doing it till your colonies are nice.
You can't add a new adult male to the colony, the females will kill him. Leave some sub adults females an males in if you want new blood.
They grow sloooooow. It's four months for a big adult. They can breed at two months.

I use a 1.3 colony. I started with a 1.2 an the kids dropped the male an one female in front of the Main Coon shop cat. OK, the ASF jumped, they do that unlike the rats. So, one female has given me five breeding colonies. I culled her after her litter of twenty was 21 days old. She was a biter.



My ASF breed better then anything I've tried in cement tubs. They even breed an raise young better then the rabbits.

My snakes will eat rats or ASF anytime. But ASF will put weight on faster an draw a feeding response from picky eaters.


If your prey dealer won't sell females, they just want to keep making money off you.

PM me if your near the Eastern Shore, I'll hook you up with a young colony.

[303_enfield]

What ever you breed use this to build your rat/mice/ASF racks:

http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/rat_rack.html

I use 1/4 wire on all the racks an have 1/2 wire food hoppers in the racks. I've built watering systems but like water bottles better as you can see problems. Problems like colony not drinking, water bottle empty an if the nipple is stuck you don't flood the colony with five gallons of water. Also, the rats can't rip the nipple off.

Now, if you do raise prey, you need to have rat/mouse traps set in the room. Or some shop cats that can handle jumbo rats. I know a rat breeder that tried to raise ASF. The hoppers got out an started a colony in his house. He didn't know till they ate the wires an flex pipe in the house. He had to tent the house an gas everything. Then open the walls to collect the dead. He now buys/trades for gassed ASF from me

[AzJohn]

Thanks folks. I've started breeding rats already, but I've seen info on line about how ASF might be better for ball pythons, not that rats are bad, and figured I'd at least check it out. I'm still tempted to try and find a few. Thanks for the offer enfield but I live in Arizona.

[rufretic]

I raise them.

If you don't handle them they are demons. Cull all the biters after the young are 21 days old an keep doing it till your colonies are nice.
You can't add a new adult male to the colony, the females will kill him. Leave some sub adults females an males in if you want new blood.
They grow sloooooow. It's four months for a big adult. They can breed at two months.

I use a 1.3 colony. I started with a 1.2 an the kids dropped the male an one female in front of the Main Coon shop cat. OK, the ASF jumped, they do that unlike the rats. So, one female has given me five breeding colonies. I culled her after her litter of twenty was 21 days old. She was a biter.



My ASF breed better then anything I've tried in cement tubs. They even breed an raise young better then the rabbits.

My snakes will eat rats or ASF anytime. But ASF will put weight on faster an draw a feeding response from picky eaters.


If your prey dealer won't sell females, they just want to keep making money off you.

PM me if your near the Eastern Shore, I'll hook you up with a young colony.

What temp do you keep yours at? My buddy that breeds them thought they were slow growers at first too, but unlike rats, they like the heat. He moved them to his fish room that I believe he heats to 80 degrees and now he almost can't keep up with production and they are growing ridiculously fast! If you keep yours in the air conditioned house at 68-70 degrees, that may be why they are growing slow. I would try raising their temps a little bit if possible and see if it helps.

[303_enfield]

What temp do you keep yours at? My buddy that breeds them thought they were slow growers at first too, but unlike rats, they like the heat. He moved them to his fish room that I believe he heats to 80 degrees and now he almost can't keep up with production and they are growing ridiculously fast! If you keep yours in the air conditioned house at 68-70 degrees, that may be why they are growing slow. I would try raising their temps a little bit if possible and see if it helps.

I have heat on them all year. If it drops below 75 the breeding slows down if it hits 40 they die.

Compared to rats an mice they are slow growers. With a live rat pup that a snake refuses the next week it's too big for the snake. With ASF you don't have that problem.

[Jarrodbrooks87]

My one breeder friend breeds mice, rats and asf on a pretty large scale and I can tell you some of the pet store reasons are not always accurate. I only know one person that breeds asf but he breeds thousands and if his are any indication of what is normal, I have no idea why asf have such a bad rep for being mean, his are by far the nicest and produce the most offspring. Now he did start his group's with pet quality animals so it's possible he just has nonaggression lines. But the breeding as far as how hard and how much they produce should be comparable to any other line. The only valid point is it will be harder to sell hatchlings that are on asf so I would recommend using them to feed your personal collection only. That is also what my buddy does, he has 100s of snakes and he can keep up with feeding his collection on the asf alone, then he sells all extras and his other rodents. Then the snakes he intends to sell, he feeds mice and rats.

if your breeding for your personal collection it's way better regular rats have maybe 8 to 12 babies at the most and asf can breed 20 or more babies at a time so I'd start with 1 female and maybe 2 males in case any somehow turns out to be infertile but from all my breeder friends I heard the babies grow a little slower than normal rats like it takes about 6 or 7 days to get fuzzy size I heard it takes about 10 or more days to get out of pinky size I want to breed asf too it's just it will take about 3 or 4 weeks to get to weaned size that my 2 1 and a half year olds need to eat and they eat every 2 weeks now and my 3 year old ball python would need to eat adults and that takes a little longer than weaned but would be perfect since she eats once a month anyway she's a little smaller than normal 3 year old ball pythons are she's 3 ft instead of 4 to 5 but she was a rescue I took in so I don't know if she was underfed her whole life or is a runt like my 1 and a half yr old female Alice she's 24 inches my bel male jasper is around the same age but 4 inches bigger so I'm thinking she was definitely a runt I got her at 6 months old and she looked like a newborn and I've fed her every week until now because she's getting chunky but still short end of story it is true it's hard to get ball pythons to eat anything but asf rats after they get their first try but my snakes don't seem picky at all I fed asf last week and they did strike and swallow faster than usual all swallowed at about the same time so it could be true they will prefer them better but will be easier to breed if I start with 1 female and 2 males because I can feed the original mom and 2 dads to my oldest and start over when the babies i sell are grown and my snakes eat what they need should be easier than rats thay grow and mate faster and can get out of control fast they litterally can get pregnant at 21 days and can overwhelm you fast