"Scaleless" Ball Pythons

[wonderwhitters]

I will preface this by saying I'm not trying to cause any drama or say anything offensive. I am genuinely just curious about the topic & how other people feel about it. So, that being said, please understand that I'm not trying to criticize or call out anyone who may have interest in this, I am just trying to educate myself & understand more, and overall see how the general ball python enthusiast population feels about it as a whole.

That being said...

I've seen a growing trend in "scaleless" morphs. I saw a photo on instagram today of one, and the snake honestly didn't look overly healthy, and looked SO fragile. In the comments people were saying how this was the next "growing trend" in BP breeding, etc...

Is it a problem to be messing with genetics so much that we are now breeding a creature without scales that's meant to have scales? Do these snakes have health problems? Is it problematic that we are making these "trendy" when they may need additional care?

I'm one for healthy & responsible breeding, so I am curious how healthy these snakes tend to be without scales, etc... I am someone who isn't a big fan of the spider gene (they are beautiful don't get me wrong), but I feel concern for them due to the genetic head wobble they possess. Not to criticize those who own them. I do know many lead happy/healthy lives.

Just curious what other's thoughts are on this...

[Craiga 01453]

This topic has come up a few times here and elsewhere. I think it's a great topic.

I personally just don't see the point. It makes no sense to me to breed them scaleless. Granted in captivity they don't need their scales as defense against predators, but in my mind, they're there for a reason. Why intentionally remove them?

And if I'm being honest, I have found almost every scaleless snake I've seen is ugly to me. It just looks...well ...weird and wrong.

[Bogertophis]

I'm not a fan of all this manipulation away from what nature has created and more importantly, what survives in the wild. To me, scaleless in particular are just for
"freak appeal", as are the hybridized snakes that would never breed on their own. (like "jungle corns" -the cross between a king & a corn...trust me, the king would
consider the corn as dinner!) Even if I were into breeding snakes these days I'd never jump on this "bandwagon"...some fads are best ignored, IMO, & of COURSE
snakes without scales are more vulnerable... I'll never understand much less condone this sort of breeding. I like snakes for who and what they are, & natural
selection has gotten it right. Why anyone would think it's a good idea to go backwards is beyond me...thanks for asking.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Some people like scaleless some don't same with hairless cats. Scaleless BP are actually not that trendy many people prefer their BP with scales and this shows when you look at the market.

Obviously it naturally occurs it was not engineered with strange experiments.

As for their health scaless cornsnakes are doing fine and have been around for quite some time.

Ball pythons well it's best to hear from someone that works with them, sure there was some controversy at first but a lot of it came from how the projects was originally handled, the secrecy and the conspiracy theories however there are no longer any secret.

Anyway here are some info they are a little higher maintenance but again so are hairless cats.



Personally I would love to have a scaleless snake however I would be leaning toward a cornsnake or a ratsnake they just look more appealing to me.

Bottom line you like scaleless buy one you don't then don't same applies for every single mutation out there from Banana to Spider to Pied to Champagne to Scaleless

[Bogertophis]

...Obviously it naturally occurs it was not engineered with strange experiments....

Just because something occurs naturally doesn't mean it survives naturally...there's a gigantic difference. Just saying...
And while it may have popped up by chance, it's only around because of human interference, or what I'd call UN-natural selection.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Just because something occurs naturally doesn't mean it survives naturally...there's a gigantic difference. Just saying...
And while it may have popped up by chance, it's only around because of human interference, or what I'd call UN-natural selection.

So are most mutations out there and all dog breeds which most are messed up at a level or another yet all love them.

[dr del]

Well done on finding those videos Deb - I hadn't seen any of them!

I find the scaleless bp's interesting but they're not something I really want to get into as a keeper. It comes down to personal choice in the end really.

There are a lot of morphs that don't really appeal to me - but as long as there is enough information out there that those who do can keep them well I don't feel it's my place to get in their way or make it harder for them to work with them.

[dakski]

I wanted to comment here, as I keep a Scaleless Corn Snake, Solana.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ow-Motley-Corn

I was fascinated by Scaleless Corns since they've existed and had the opportunity to get Solana from Don Soderberg at South Mountain Reptiles when she was the only one in the world with both her traits and her visual markings.

IMO, it's no different than an albino BP, Boa, or Corn, etc. except that in corn snakes, they are all from an original pairing of a corn and another rat snake, which escapes me at the moment. So, in that sense, they are hybrids and "manufactured."

It's a "naturally" occurring recessive trait. I've heard mixed things on the BP's who are scaleless as well as the smooth skinned Bearded Dragons (who need lotion rubbed on their skin, or so I've heard - please correct me if I am off here). Scaleless corns look and feel different than other corns, and in many cases the colors "pop." However, they retain scales around their mouth, eyes, and nose for protection, and all on their bellies so locomotion is not an issue. Having said that, I wouldn't feed live to a scaleless corn, but I don't anyway and they are garbage disposals and happily eat F/T.

Going back to how I don't feel it's different than other morphs. A bright yellow Boa isn't going to do so well in the jungle, or for long anyway, and neither is a purple corn snake (I keep Figment, who is just that). As Stewart_Reptiles points out, dogs are bred for what we want as humans as well, but we love them. They would not survive in the wild either.

Solana was expensive, but for a corn snake, not compared to what people pay for BP morphs. She happens to be the calmest corn I've ever met and has shown zero ill effects from being scaleless. I plan to keep her for her life and care for her and she will never end up in the wild. I view her as I do any of my other reptile morphs.

Let's face it, most reptile breeding is about looks and genetics. In my mind, this is no different.

[wnateg]

I don't know much at all about them, but personally, I think snakes with just scaleless heads look like a birth defect.

The example with hairless cats does sound like a good comparison though. Sure, they aren't necessarily "supposed" to be, but people do it, and I don't think many people consider that irresponsible.

[pbenner]

I don't know much at all about them, but personally, I think snakes with just scaleless heads look like a birth defect.

All of the mutations we breed for are technically "birth defects", but it's one of those things.

Personally I'm in the camp that they appear hideous and frail. Hard pass on anything Scaleless for this guy. Also not a fan of anything with a wobble.

Paul