feeding issues

[Erikamc]

got my guy october, 2016. Little back story, he was found as a stray, a little underweight. It took about a week for him to eat for me, and it was mice, because that was what I had on hand. I moved to rats when I found some at petco. after one bad purchase, I went to online rats (large for him). He stopped eating around December 2016 and started back up around April 2017. He ate one large rat about once a week until around october/november 2017. He started eating again May 2018 and ate 1 large rat a week until october/november 2018. This year has been VERY,VERY different. He has eaten maybe 2 rats this whole "eating season". One of the things I tried was, I gave him a mouse (which he attacked with gusto) then tried to follow it with a rat, no go. Next I tried defrosting his rat with mice, still no go. I've tried everything suggested. I wonder, is it ok to go back to mice just to get food into him? I have not weighed him to see if he has lost weight (I'm sure he has, just no idea how much), but I know I'm coming in to the fasting season. Nothing has changed in his cage/the house, all his parameters are still good. He seems to WANT to eat as he gets active, shows feeding behaviors towards the food, just doesn't actually strike and eat. Anyone looking in my history... I stopped removing him from his cage for feeding almost two years ago. (I have not tried going back to that). I hesitate to take him to the vet as they usually seem to lean towards force feeding. I don't want to go that route.

[Bogertophis]

We might not all agree here on this, but if that was my snake, I'd feed him mice to get food into him. The only trouble with mice is that they aren't big enough to be
an adequate meal for an adult BP, and many BPs (but not all) won't eat multiple items per meal. But especially since you think he's losing weight, I'd feed him mice.

Some will tell you to stay the course (rats) & wait for him to be hungry enough to eat them, but I hate to see a snake losing much weight, because at some point it
may compromise their immune system too...& then you really have a problem.

No, don't feed your snake in another cage or container...ever. on you for stopping that silly practice 2 years ago...it's just all wrong, well-intentioned maybe, but
wrong nonetheless. And I agree, "force-feeding" is a last resort...actually I'd tube-feed a snake long before I'd ever force-feed, as it's way gentler if done right & can
be enough of an energy charge that they feel good enough to thereafter eat normally. But still, try mice for now.

Also: what are the cage temperatures & humidity? & how are you measuring them? These things can make a difference in whether or not a snake will eat. Same
goes for their sense of security (with adequate hides & cover). What about handling? (have you been? if so, how much?) Really have to cover all the bases here.

Almost forgot: are you feeding live or f/t? How are you offering f/t? (temperature? how thawed?) etc.
If live, snakes CAN become afraid of their prey, esp. if they get a nip (even if you don't notice, they may remember), so it's possible
he feels intimidated by rats for this reason...& I don't blame him a bit, rats can really hurt, even kill a snake.

While I certainly advocate feeding snakes on f/t (or freshly pre-killed, "p/k") whenever possible, sometimes feeding a young rodent
that's live will get a BP "going again" (feeding). Rats & mice with eyes closed do NOT bite/fight back at all, & shortly after they open
their eyes, they are still fairly "clueless" (safer for snakes that need to stimulate their instincts again).

[bcr229]

Bear in mind that a large rat is a huge meal for a male ball python. My males get a small rat every 2-3 weeks and even then they don't eat every time they get offered a feeder. If you've been feeding large rats and he's had two since spring, your snake may just not be very hungry yet.

[cletus]

Whenever I have feeding issues that last longer than I'm comfortable, I put them in a smaller enclosure and downsized the prey. Instead of a small rat I'll go with a live pup and it usually works.

[Erikamc]

Feeding him to get food in to him is becoming my mindset, I just want him to eat. I'll definitely weigh him to see if it needs to be urgent. I've discovered he's a little shy. He'll let me handle him, but I can tell he's not a fan. I'd honestly just feed him more often with mice, but I have been "staying the course" this entire "feeding season" and feel kinda, defeated, honestly.

He's in a 40 breeder. I have the screen lid covered with foil tape (except where his CHE is) and the sides (except for the front) covered in...foil bubble wrap (not sure how else to describe it honestly)
His warm end is about 93-95 degrees F his cool end is not lower than 80 degrees F.

I have an ink bird thermostat controller on the warm end ( https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Tempe...garden&sr=1-13 ) I measure the mid area with a digital thermometer/hygrometer and the cool end with a digital thermometer ( no, I don't know the brands)

He has two exo terra reptile caves (if this link works... https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )

I honestly don't handle him much. He's not super flighty, but kinda flighty, if that makes sense? and I'm never sure how long to wait on either end of feeding.

His humidity does fluctuate low is 50% high is 70%, except when I notice he is entering shed, then I up it to about 90% (he came to me with shed issues and if the humidity isn't high around shed time, he has problems)

I feed him F/t. Not sure of the temperature, have just been doing what I have always done, slowly defrosting it in a double bag in water and then putting it in hotter water right before feeding time. I am asking for one of those fancy schmancy laser thermometers for christmas, but I have not changed anything in my thaw process.

We might not all agree here on this, but if that was my snake, I'd feed him mice to get food into him. The only trouble with mice is that they aren't big enough to be
an adequate meal for an adult BP, and many BPs (but not all) won't eat multiple items per meal. But especially since you think he's losing weight, I'd feed him mice.

Some will tell you to stay the course (rats) & wait for him to be hungry enough to eat them, but I hate to see a snake losing much weight, because at some point it
may compromise their immune system too...& then you really have a problem.

No, don't feed your snake in another cage or container...ever. on you for stopping that silly practice 2 years ago...it's just all wrong, well-intentioned maybe, but
wrong nonetheless. And I agree, "force-feeding" is a last resort...actually I'd tube-feed a snake long before I'd ever force-feed, as it's way gentler if done right & can
be enough of an energy charge that they feel good enough to thereafter eat normally. But still, try mice for now.

Also: what are the cage temperatures & humidity? & how are you measuring them? These things can make a difference in whether or not a snake will eat. Same
goes for their sense of security (with adequate hides & cover). What about handling? (have you been? if so, how much?) Really have to cover all the bases here.

Almost forgot: are you feeding live or f/t? How are you offering f/t? (temperature? how thawed?) etc.
If live, snakes CAN become afraid of their prey, esp. if they get a nip (even if you don't notice, they may remember), so it's possible
he feels intimidated by rats for this reason...& I don't blame him a bit, rats can really hurt, even kill a snake.

While I certainly advocate feeding snakes on f/t (or freshly pre-killed, "p/k") whenever possible, sometimes feeding a young rodent
that's live will get a BP "going again" (feeding). Rats & mice with eyes closed do NOT bite/fight back at all, & shortly after they open
their eyes, they are still fairly "clueless" (safer for snakes that need to stimulate their instincts again).

[Bogertophis]

I'd keep the "warm end" of the cage at or below 90*. Not only for safety, but the warmer he is, the faster his metabolism is working & the more weight he'll lose.

"I feed him F/t. Not sure of the temperature, have just been doing what I have always done, slowly defrosting it in a double bag in water and then putting it in hotter water right before feeding time. I am asking for one of those fancy schmancy laser thermometers for christmas, but I have not changed anything in my thaw process."

F/t cools off pretty fast, & many here thaw in similar ways but blast (especially the head/nose of the rodent) with a blow-dryer right before offering, & it seems
to work for most people. BPs rely a great deal on their heat sensing pits to identify their prey, & rodents have a high metabolism (meaning they're quite warm
when alive)...you want to replicate this as much as possible.

And as always, handling is risky with a snake that's not eating, especially one like yours that's obviously not relaxed about it yet, & may never be. Any stress is likely to make him less willing to eat. (Unless of course he's just still full from eating larger rats???)

[Erikamc]

I might be inclined to agree, mostly because, I really don't know what I'm doing. I feel though that the rats I ordered were of the correct weight for a snake his size to eat every 10 days or so. I will double check my sizing to make sure I'm correct on what I'm feeding him (medium vs large). I'd be happy with him eating one a month, but he hasn't, despite showing me signs that he's interested in eating. He is (or was...he may have grown) 3' 10" and weighed 1187 grams when he was rescued. He was thin, but not emaciated. I admit, I have not weighed him since about 6 months after he came to me. he was gaining weight and eating fine so I didn't want to pester him

Bear in mind that a large rat is a huge meal for a male ball python. My males get a small rat every 2-3 weeks and even then they don't eat every time they get offered a feeder. If you've been feeding large rats and he's had two since spring, your snake may just not be very hungry yet.

[Bogertophis]

... I'd be happy with him eating one a month, but he hasn't, despite showing me signs that he's interested in eating...

When a snake seems to want food (shows interest but backs off) that suggests to me that something isn't quite right. Thawing improperly can cause spoilage which snakes can smell & that CAN make them reject the prey you're offering. For that matter, not all sources of rodents can be trusted to quick-freeze & ensure they aren't thawed & re-frozen. I don't remember which seller it was, but a while back one of them was getting a large block of frozen rodents from a second source, then had to thaw to separate them for sales...& as you might expect, many were spoiled & later rejected by snakes, or they even "exploded" or fell apart when offered...bleah!

FYI, I thaw in cold water (change water when it gets really cold a few times to make it faster), & stop once you can feel the entire insides are thawed (soft), only then immerse in very warm water briefly to bring up the temperature...not too long though. None of my snakes need the "blow dryer treatment", but it's very helpful for most BPs.

[ballpythonsrock2]

I think the main reason your snake is refusing is the size rats you are offering are way too large. There is a feeding chart that is posted on here often and it states that small rats are really the largest size that should be offered for a male BP. I would go to Petco and grab the smallest of the small rat size you can feel in the bag and thaw and offer that in a week or two after your last offer. If that doesn't work I would wait another week and go to offering about 3 mice. You can work on going back to small rats later by mixing the two (mice and small rat) together in one bag frozen besides each other. (mix up the smells)

Those CHE are capable of getting pretty hot (especially the 150 watts ones) so I would back down the hot end to 88 or 89. If you don't have a infrared temp gun to measure your surfaces (for example hide surfaces) they could be even hotter than 95 and 95 is too hot. I wouldn't wait till Christmas to get one you need one yesterday. They sell infrared temp guns with the red dot at Home Depot or Lowes for not that much money or Harbor Freight sells them too. Mine is a CE commercial electric brand and I love it. It has a night light button so I can read it in the dark. Like I say they are an invaluable tool and not that expensive. You can use it to check your feeder temperature's while you are heating them up as well as your enclosure temps.
Good Luck hope he starts eating soon. Sounds like he wants too you just need to start offering small rats and lower you hot end temps.

[Moose84]

got my guy october, 2016. Little back story, he was found as a stray, a little underweight. It took about a week for him to eat for me, and it was mice, because that was what I had on hand. I moved to rats when I found some at petco. after one bad purchase, I went to online rats (large for him). He stopped eating around December 2016 and started back up around April 2017. He ate one large rat about once a week until around october/november 2017. He started eating again May 2018 and ate 1 large rat a week until october/november 2018. This year has been VERY,VERY different. He has eaten maybe 2 rats this whole "eating season". One of the things I tried was, I gave him a mouse (which he attacked with gusto) then tried to follow it with a rat, no go. Next I tried defrosting his rat with mice, still no go. I've tried everything suggested. I wonder, is it ok to go back to mice just to get food into him? I have not weighed him to see if he has lost weight (I'm sure he has, just no idea how much), but I know I'm coming in to the fasting season. Nothing has changed in his cage/the house, all his parameters are still good. He seems to WANT to eat as he gets active, shows feeding behaviors towards the food, just doesn't actually strike and eat. Anyone looking in my history... I stopped removing him from his cage for feeding almost two years ago. (I have not tried going back to that). I hesitate to take him to the vet as they usually seem to lean towards force feeding. I don't want to go that route.

How big is this snake?? Large rats are enormous for a BP.. Even big females top out on mediums... Sounds like the animal should have PLENTY of size on it to take a fast.. Live mice are like candy to snakes and will break a fast most of the time from my experience..Definitely get a weight on the animal any time their feedings go off..