BP's and Children..help

[Zincubus]

If salmonella is the big concern here then I hope you don't have any cats or dogs. Their feces can also transmit salmonella. Not implying your kids play with poop lol but I too have small children and they will sometimes "help" clean the litter box or pick up dog poo in the yard. We're cautious and we've never had an issue but that's not to say there isn't risk. My point is the reptiles themselves aren't solely to blame. Whether they're the culprits or not many diseases- salmonella included -can be transmitted by all animals not just reptiles.

Yep our vet said the same thing when I enquired about my snakes and salmonella... he said our dog was a greater risk !


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[Bogertophis]

So if it's transmitted by dog or cat feces, look at how many yards & parks have contaminated lawns? (hint: probably over 90%, just guessing)
Even when the stuff is picked up, some is left behind that kids could touch accidentally, on shoes, etc.

[RedRabbit]

Although my specialty is not pediatrics, I am a physician (licensed MD), so I can perhaps provide some additional information, though I will emphasize that I am not giving any specific recommendations here as a medical provider; this is only for potential educational insights.

I reviewed some of the current medical literature specifically regarding reptile-associated salmonellosis (RAS), and these points may be relevant for our consideration:

- The most common manifestation of RAS is gastrointestinal disease - diarrhea, abdominal discomfort, fever, possible nausea/vomiting. This is consistent with the most common presentation of Salmonella infections as a whole. However, there is also the possibility of invasive RAS, which is much less common but also more serious, and can include bacteremia (spread into the bloodstream), meningitis, or bone/joint infections.

- While it is true that most of the RAS exposures are linked to turtles, there have also been cases documented related to lizards and snakes that are common in the pet trade.

- Invasive RAS is more commonly seen in children of younger age (especially infants under 6 months, but can happen in the toddler age range too), and, notably, is more likely to be seen associated with reptile exposures that are not turtles.

- A factor to be taken into account that probably contributes to this is that these snakes and lizards are usually pets that are kept indoors, i.e. the setting that infants and very young children are also "confined" to for the majority of the time. Contrast this with turtles that may often be kept outside, and the older age at which children begin to engage with more outdoor play.

- With all that said, if a child is generally healthy and not chronically immunocompromised, I cannot recall seeing any medical practice guidelines that say physicians should recommend that people completely get rid of their reptilian pets. Instead, preventive recommendations emphasize hand hygiene practices in the household.

- Since the Salmonella bacteria is shed through the reptile's feces, let's return to the realm of reptile-keeping practices -- keeping the reptiles' enclosures clean is very important to minimize Salmonella exposure risk, as well as having a strict hand-washing protocol in place for every family member, not just the children, after any reptile handling. These are the measures that will greatly reduce the risk of RAS.

- If you completely remove pet reptiles from the home, then yes, that will of course reduce your risk of reptile-associated Salmonella to zero (assuming you also have zero interactions with reptiles at pet stores, at a friend's house, etc.). However, it will not change your risk of exposure to Salmonella from the other, more common sources that many here have already mentioned.

With all of this in mind, I do find it completely understandable if OP chooses to not keep reptiles, at least for the time being while the kids are still young. However, as others have experienced, it is also quite feasible for pet reptiles and young children to safely coexist. Both are reasonable, and neither would be considered a poor parenting choice, in my personal opinion.

[Bogertophis]

I was sure hoping you'd share your thoughts on this, RedRabbit. You've definitely shared some great information, & invasive RAS is pretty scary, I admit.

And all this time I've only heard of the OTHER "RAS". ("reptile acquisition syndrome")

[RedRabbit]

I realized I got so caught up in presenting the information bullet points, I neglected to address OP individually. OP, I am very sorry to hear about what happened with your 3-year-old son, and I am glad to hear that he is recovering fairly quickly. It sounds like you and your family are already very attentive to hand-washing after handling the pet reptiles, so I applaud you for that, and that does slightly lower my concern for it actually being RAS in your case. With that said, as I mentioned above, I absolutely would not fault you if you are choosing not to have reptiles in the home right now. Unfortunately, I cannot think of any specific reptile or amphibian species that do not come with at least some possibility of carrying Salmonella.

You may already be doing these as well, but if you do decide to keep your reptiles, here are other general practices that can help minimize risk:
- Hand-washing should be with hot water and plenty of soap, should cover the entire hands including under the nails, and should involve scrubbing for a duration of at least 20 seconds. The CDC has a helpful page on effective hand-washing, here: https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/when...ndwashing.html
If your reptiles venture onto your wrists/forearms while handling them, then include these areas of your arms when washing as well.
- The same hand-washing rules apply when touching any reptile equipment/toys or anything in their enclosures, even if no contact is made with the animal itself.
- The reptiles' food/water dishes and other equipment should be washed in a separate sink from what the family commonly uses in the kitchen or bathroom. As a general rule, reptiles and reptile "stuff" should be kept out of the kitchen/dining area entirely.
- No eating or drinking while around the reptiles. If you have a designated reptile room, enforce a "no (human) food or drink" rule for that room in particular.
- If the reptiles are sometimes brought out of the reptile room/area for play in other parts of the house, lay down a specified surface for them to play on, such as a blanket or a tablecloth - something that can be washed regularly and thoroughly. Do not let them free-roam across common household surfaces.

[bhsurf4]

I have 4 kids, all grown up now, but as a parent I understand that if a child is in the hospital and the dr. recommends that you do something, you are probably going to do it. That being said, if you rehome the animals or not, that’s your decision, I am just a little upset that the Dr. would suggest that you do that and not suggest testing the animals first. I really hope everything comes out ok.

[dakski]

First, I am terribly sorry your son got sick.

Secondly, I am not a child, nor do I have children, but I am heavily immune suppressed being a kidney transplant recipient. I also have my nieces and nephews over frequently and they handle many of my 13 reptiles (both lizards and snakes).

When I was first getting transplanted, I was told to get rid of all my reptiles because of salmonella risk. I freaked out and re-homed my two snakes, but kept my Beardie because my wife at the time (now ex) said she would care for him. Guess, what, she didn't, at all. I ended up feeding him, cleaning for him, and handling him. The same for all my other reptiles from then (2012) until today. Guess what else? I have never gotten sick from them. I clean their tanks, feed, handle, etc.

Having said that, I am incredibly careful. I use hand sanitizer and/or wash between animals and always do a thorough hand and arm wash when done. I do my best not to touch feces but if I do wash immediately and thoroughly. I also keep my hands away from my mouth and nose, consciously.

I agree, if your son got sick from the reptiles, it was because of access to feces and/or touching an animal that had feces on them, or touched near the vent, and then likely touched his face. Or, as others have said, he contracted it another way.

When my nieces and nephews, or anyone, come over, I preach cleanliness. I especially do with the reptiles, to the point that they ask me if I washed my hands between reptiles, like clockwork.

I made the mistake of getting rid of two animals I loved because of what the doctors said, not understanding they do not completely understand the risk and fear what they don't know.

It's a personal decision, but my guess is make cleanliness fun and make clear boundaries if you think it was the reptiles.

I also know breeders who have had transplants and care for 300 snakes at a time or more.

Wishing your son a speedy recovery and all the best with your decision.

[smoothdog89]

I'm so sorry you and your son went through this!!!

I would honestly not rehome the reptiles though. There are risks with any pet, going outside to play, going to school or the supermarket. Unless your child is found to have some severely compromised immune system (leukemia, organ transplant recipient, congenital immune suppression), this is not necessary.

If you practice good hand-washing and don't allow the children to hold the reptiles for now, you should be okay. As you can see in my sig, we have lots of pets and some of them do carry risks. We just wash our hands and keep things reasonably clean.

Also talk to the vet about possibly treating the animals in question. I have no idea if this is something they do or not, but it would be a good conversation to have.

P.S. While I cannot and will not give official medical advice, even as a registered nurse with 4 years Pediatric ICU experience, I can give you advice as a fellow parent and tell you what I would do in your situation.

Well i certainly don't want to re-home them, as i have been researching you can even get salmonella from dogs and cats(which i didn't know, nor do we have any). Thank you for the response, i wanted to get more advice before just selling all of our pets. I think if the kids just don't handle them, except for my 7 year old, they should be just fine.

[smoothdog89]

I’ll be straight forward with you, I have a toddler too around that age and he is an absolute handful. There’s a big possibility he could of gone into the trash and touched something infected with salmonella. Toddlers move so much and get into anything they can. Unless you recently let your child hold one of your reptiles or you have them easily accessible to where they can handle them without you guys knowing, there’s no way to know where he got sick from. I personally would not want to rehome all my reptiles with out more certainty that they are the actual cause.


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Thank you!! They are definitely a hand full and i thought the ER doctor jumped to conclusions very quickly. All Of the Reptiles have the Exo Terra Tanks (on Purpose) because the kids arent able to unlock the door plus they are out of reach, so the only way they are able to hold any is if theyre being supervised. I agree he could have gotten it from literally anywhere, and we have some BP's we've had for a while and paid a pretty good amount for. thank you for the response.

[smoothdog89]

I hope your child makes a full recovery! You can have the reps test for salmonella by your Vet. I have only found salmonella in wild caught reps. Now, the pig ears from china are another story.

Good luck!

Thank you! he is not fully recovered yet but this is his 3rd day with antibiotics and he's doing so much better. I was unaware the vets could do that, i will have to ask them about it. thanks again!