Heat mat and substrate

[VultureTim]

I'm worried that my heat mat isn't sending enough heat though the substrate. I have a little less than half an inch of coconut fiber spread across the terrarium and have an thermostat controller set up as heat mat then probe then glass bottom. I use an infrared thermometer to check the substrate and it only records about 85F max and i'm at least able to feel the heat when placing my hand on it. The substrate used to be thicker, probably 1-1.5 inches of fiber, but then I couldn't feel any heat and the infrared thermometer only recorded somewhere in the mid 70s, even when I set the thermostat controller to +100F.

Previously my thermostat controller was set to turn off 95F and with the infrared it was about 85F on the surface. Currently I have it set to 105F and now it reaches barely 90F. Am I overreacting? Was setting my thermostat controller to 95F good enough and my infrared thermometer just gets messed up from the substrate or my ball python can feel more than what the thermometer is telling me?

[jmcrook]

You want to measure the temp of the glass, not the top of the substrate. The animal will move substrate to get to the heat pad. If it’s 90° on top of the substrate it’s hot enough to burn the animal underneath the substrate


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[ballpythonsrock2]

I'm worried that my heat mat isn't sending enough heat though the substrate. I have a little less than half an inch of coconut fiber spread across the terrarium and have an thermostat controller set up as heat mat then probe then glass bottom. I use an infrared thermometer to check the substrate and it only records about 85F max and i'm at least able to feel the heat when placing my hand on it. The substrate used to be thicker, probably 1-1.5 inches of fiber, but then I couldn't feel any heat and the infrared thermometer only recorded somewhere in the mid 70s, even when I set the thermostat controller to +100F.

Previously my thermostat controller was set to turn off 95F and with the infrared it was about 85F on the surface. Currently I have it set to 105F and now it reaches barely 90F. Am I overreacting? Was setting my thermostat controller to 95F good enough and my infrared thermometer just gets messed up from the substrate or my ball python can feel more than what the thermometer is telling me?

What many people (new) on here seem to fail to understand is a uth is not for heating the substrate. Your not the only poster who doesn't seem to understand that. A uth is for creating a hot spot on the bottom (on the glass) up to a temp of 90 degrees F. It will not substantially heat the substrate and is not really for that. It is only to create a warm spot. And the uth and probe should go on the outside. With the probe in between the outside bottom and the heat pad.

I could take the time to take many pictures but I hope you might check this out for yourself and other new posters too. When your little noodle has been in the hide for a while. If you lift the hide up to have a look you will almost 100 percent of the time when you move the snake see a bare spot it has been laying on. About every time I remove my ball out of it's enclosure there is a circle of bare glass/plastic which the snake has been laying on. The uth is to warm up that spot of glass/plastic and that is the only real reason to have it.

To warm up the substrate, ambient, and the over all enclosure you must either heat the entire area the snake is in, or use an additional heat source such as a heat bulb (night bulbs being the best IMO), ceramic heat emitter (che), or radiant heat panel (rhp) They are 2 different things with 2 different ways to heat them. One is a spot of heat and the other stuff provides enclosure heat.

Hope this helps you out. Like mentioned many, many, many people seem to not understand that even though we mention it many times on here. And not knowing the difference can lead to many snake burns if that glass/plastic temp is set too high in trying to do something which can not be done.(heat substrate by uth)
The substrate will get a little heat from the uth but that is not what the uth is there for.
You did the right thing in bringing the substrate depth to 1/2 an inch. Very good.

[ballpythonsrock2]

You want to measure the temp of the glass, not the top of the substrate. The animal will move substrate to get to the heat pad. If it’s 90° on top of the substrate it’s hot enough to burn the animal underneath the substrate


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Much shorter version. Well said.

[Ranulf]

Ball pythons aren't necessarily burrowers. Mine has never done any burrowing or digging, but he does climb a lot. Still, its risky having an area of the tank that he could get too hot or burn himself on.

I put my thermostat probe inside the tank on top of the glass. You can use some hot glue to ensure it stays in place, but don't glue the actual probe part down, just the plastic cord. Make sure the thermostat is underneath or next to your hot hide

Heat transfer through a medium is dependant on a lot of factors, but it tends not to be linear when dealing with loose substrate. Basically, increasing your thermostat by a certain amount will not necessarily increase substrate surface temperatures by the same amount.

I would set your thermostat to no more than 100°. 88-92 degrees is a really good range to keep your hot side at, and if you need more heat, I would run a heat lamp with a night bulb or CHE on a thermostat, with that thermostat probe hanging a few inches from the substrate on your cold side. This is what I currently do, and my temperatures are currently perfect.

[VultureTim]

Thank you all for the replies.

I've reset the thermostat controller to be 94F and i'll keep monitoring the temps to see how things go. I have a kenyan sand boa that I also have a thermostat for and used the infrared thermometer to measure the glass temp but didn't think to do the same with my ball python's terrarium. I thought it was a different circumstance since ball pythons don't typically burrow.

[jmcrook]

I put my thermostat probe inside the tank on top of the glass. You can use some hot glue to ensure it stays in place, but don't glue the actual probe part down, just the plastic cord. Make sure the thermostat is underneath or next to your hot hide.

Do NOT put the thermostat probe for an under enclosure heating element inside the cage EVER. It can be peed on, water spilled, etc causing dangerous temp fluctuations.
From the bottom up ALWAYS in this order:
Heat tape/UTH, thermostat probe, bottom of enclosure.



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[Ranulf]

Do NOT put the thermostat probe for an under enclosure heating element inside the cage EVER. It can be peed on, water spilled, etc causing dangerous temp fluctuations.
From the bottom up ALWAYS in this order:
Heat tape/UTH, thermostat probe, bottom of enclosure.

I follow the recommendations of a reputable breeder in my area and I use safe thermostats.

I am a nuclear worker who is extremely familiar with control and indication, and there have been no issues.

These are simply two different schools of thought. I have never dumped water on the thermostat, and even if I did, it would significantly cool the entire substrate until it evaporated. It wouldn't create dangerous temperatures, as that probe is reading the actual temperatures in the tank. When the temperatures increase, the thermostat will function as normal and turn off the heat. Substrate has generally good capillary action and water will spread throughout the bottom of the tank. The entire tank will be cooled.


Placing the thermostat probe between the mat and the glass creates a problem. Inefficient heat transfer, and inaccurate temperature readings in the tank. I do not like this, as I want uniform heat transfer at all points where my heat mat touches the glass.

Both methods seem to work for people, and its very much up to personal choice.


There are no absolutes in this, do what works for you

https://youtu.be/8Hq3RzDE_uE

[jmcrook]

Horse->water. Drink or don’t. Wish PitOnTheProwl’s old crayola illustration was still circulating here to show the correct way to do things... any others care to weigh in? I’m not going to argue. Just offering my knowledge and experience as a result of keeping reptiles for over two decades

Additionally, in the video you’ve linked here, there is no thermostat being used. That is a thermoMETER used solely for reading temperatures, not to control the power provided to the heat element.

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[Ranulf]

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Your concerns and reasonings for using the method that you do are the rationale behind your choice.

The decades of experience of the reptile breeders I know speak for the method I use, as well as my extensive knowledge of heat transfer and fluid flow. Science, basically.

A major breeder of all kinds of snakes and reptiles has not had a single problem with heat regulation due to the method I use in over 30 years of keeping reptiles. Several other breeders use the method I use as well, with no issues. I consider it superior due to the improved heat transfer to the tank, and the more accurate temperature reading you get. It is completely safe.

Engineering/Science says so. I feel in a few years, the external probe thing will go the way of separate feeding tubs and "cage aggression," but that's just me.