Question...

[ladywhipple02]

Okay, so I want to put something to you experts out there... say you have $5000 in capital. What pair of BPs or trio (1.1 or 1.2) would you purchase? Keep in mind, this $5000 would have to also pay for food and housing. So, what morphs would provide the highest gain at this price?

Just curious... thanks for any and all answers...

[Adam_Wysocki]

Hatchlings or adults?? (ie, how long are you willing to wait for a return?)

Food and housing for 1 year, 2 years, life??? Little more info here.

By "housing" you mean the $5,000 also has to cover rack space?

Do you already own any adult or sub-adult normal females and if so, how many.

Do you plan on selling the offspring retail or wholesale? If retail does the $5,000 also have to cover marketing, website, shipping supplies, etc???

Right now, the ball market is soooo hot that I really don't feel that there's anything you can invest in morph wise that won't give you a great return.

Which morphs do you love?? ... That's the big one ... Cleaning snake crap while you're raising up breeders that really aren't what you wanted in the first place gets awfully "old" after a while if it's just for investments sake.

-adam

[ladywhipple02]

I do have two adult normal BPs, one male and one female, but the female has a kink near the base of her tail... so I wouldn't feel too comfortable breeding her.


My investor would want a quick turn around, so we're looking for adults. And, yes, the food would be for just a year (just an estimate for now) and for racks space for the adults and their babies.

Because I'd just have a pair, I'd probably sell the babies individually, rather than wholesale (wouldn't have that many starting out). The $5000 does not have to cover website and/or advertising and/or shipping.

Basically, I'm looking at initial costs, only. I have an investor who's interested in getting into snakes (he'd put forth the money, I'd take care of them---until he made back his money, in which case, we'd split, 60% me, 40% him for costs). I just wanted to get some numbers together for him.

As for me... any ball python is a cutie! I thought about getting an albino and a pastel or two (one male albino, one or two pastel females). I don't know... why I asked

[daniel1983]

If you want to do all of that in one year’s time, you may be in for some disappointment if your expectations are high. The most important things that I have learned is that ball pythons take time to breed and people looking for a 'quick turn around' are just asking for trouble. When you think of the worst-case scenario, you will spend money on ball pythons then they will not produce what you would need to break even. That kind of stuff happens a lot because nothing is guaranteed with reptiles. If you are getting 'investors', I would make sure to explain that they may suffer a loss. The problem with just 'jumping' right into the mix of things is that you have no idea if the adult ball pythons that you obtain will actually breed. To assume that they will breed and that you will produce what you would like is silly.

Since you are looking to purchase adults, you may have trouble getting quality animals with only $5000. I am not saying that they are not out there...I am just saying be very careful who you purchase from and be prepared to spend a lot of money. Also, make sure you price equipment and supplies for incubating eggs and housing hatchlings.

I am not trying to convince you out of your plans nor do I support them. I am giving this input as someone who has once considered doing what you plan on doing and ruled against it. After almost a year of pondering on the topic of breeding and selling ball pythons to make money, I finally reached a conclusion that at no point do I ever want to look at reptiles as ‘money’. I will breed reptiles and sell/trade them only to increase my collection and support it. When all is said and done, I would just like to have a bunch of awesome herps to look at and care for to take my troubles away. That was my choice. Some people have done very well with what you plan on doing so sucess is possible. If you choose to attempt to make quick money from breeding ball pythons, all that I ask is that you prepare yourself well and expect everything to go wrong. After all, if you are expecting little and you gain a lot…. the success will be much sweeter

Now that I have said that little rant, back to your original question:

If you were planning to breed next season (06-07), I would get a hypo or albino male and some 1000+ grams normal/poss. het females right now and get them up to size for breeding. This way all offspring you produce will be heterozygous(or even homozygous) for the trait. If you purchased a co-dom/dom trait, you will run the risk of just producing normal babies (this would not be good since you are looking for quick money). However with hets, you will have to have some type of credibility in order to let buyers know that you are truly selling heterozygous offspring and not just normal with a het label. I see both options having a little risk….so basically the decision is up to you. Personally, I am a recessive trait freak so I would go with a hypo male(Joe has one advertised for $1500) and a bunch of possible het females (I think Adam has 3 available…I think they were $2500 for the group ). That would leave you with about $900 to house and feed 4 snakes for a year and support their offspring

Hope that helps

[ladywhipple02]

I totally agree with everything you say... I really do. In fact, I was talking to this 'investor' about getting a couple Angolans. He wanted to get two adults, breed them this season, and make a quick buck next year. I totally refused. I told him that I had no experience with Angolans, if I was going to breed them, I wanted to buy a pair of babies, raise them up, get to know the snakes. I told him that all my snakes and geckos were also my pets and would be treated as such (which is why I bought eight baby geckos instead of buying one already breeding pair). The only reason I semi-agreed to breeding ball pythons is because I have some experience with them. But I don't like the way he thinks... and the more I think about it, the more I want to tell him no.


I would, however, still like to get opinions on what babies would provide a high output in a few years (for the said 5000). Maybe if I can give him enough numbers and enough reasoning, he'll see where I'm coming from and still let me have the money. But 5000 over three years is a lot to ask. Oh well, we'll see.

Thanks for the input.

[ddbjdealer]

This story was kind of weird for me to read... cause almost the same thing happened to me the other day at work. I was talking to my boss in a pre-shift meeting, and he is a huge investor. Has butt-loads of cash in the market. He was asking me what I've been up to lately, and I told him about the new snakes I'm getting from Adam, and how I'm anxiously awaiting their arrival. When I told him how much I paid for the little girls, he freaked and almost immediately (without any research whatsoever) offered me 10g's to help with my projects over the next few "months". I explained that it would be a good 3-5 years until any offspring would be produced, and then he started asking all kinds of questions about adults, and the possibility of obtaining breeding stock to turn around this season. After explaining everything out, I don't think he's too interested... nor am I in the quick turnaround idea. I have every plan to hold back 99% of my females from my first clutch(es).. and his plan would be to sell everything off. I don't want to "herp" like that... I don't like puppy farms, and I don't think I'd feel very honorable running a BP Farm either.

Of course, if anyone wanted to GIVE me a few lessers to make some lucy's, or maybe even an adult lucy... I wouldn't at all turn it down.... but I want to invest/re-invest to get there myself. I think I'll feel more reward in it if I do it that way, rather than to just take someone's money that might not be pleased with how I intend on using it and re-investing it. Silent partners are all I would EVER consider.. and I don't even really like that idea.

[lars5277]

Question: Is there an ethical limit to how many times a female is bred?
I know my mom breeds her female dogs (yes I know it's a contadiction in terms) no more than twice, it's bad for the dogs health and doesn't dilute the blood line or pedigree. Does the same go for BPs and other types of snakes?

[TekWarren]

I wish someone would PAY me to buy, raise, and breed these guys! My only worry when reading things like this is that the sole basis for said "endeavor" is money... I have no doubt though that people such as Lynn would try and cut corners. I myself have joking talked with people about "investing" but I don't think I could do that personally...the people with the money want to quick of a turn around I would want no part in rushing any projects.

[Cubby23]

I'm no expert, but I would buy an albino male $1500, and 4 more het albino females, making 4k in snakes. And save a thousand for food, racks, mistakes, extra. This would yeild half visible albinos, and half 100% percent hets. Those het female can pull 600, albino male 1500, albino female 2000, het male 150. Guessing 50/50 m/f 8 eggs per clutch. You produce 32 snakes. Worth approx. 34k in hatched snakes. Minus money initially spent and expenses i dunno, around 28k. If im way off please correct me. GOOD LUCK

[Adam_Wysocki]

I'm no expert, but I would buy an albino male $1500, and 4 more het albino females, making 4k in snakes. And save a thousand for food, racks, mistakes, extra. This would yeild half visible albinos, and half 100% percent hets. Those het female can pull 600, albino male 1500, albino female 2000, het male 150. Guessing 50/50 m/f 8 eggs per clutch. You produce 32 snakes. Worth approx. 34k in hatched snakes. Minus money initially spent and expenses i dunno, around 28k. If im way off please correct me. GOOD LUCK

If you're buying an albino male today from a guy selling them for $1500, by the time you raise the het girls up and produce your own, that same guy that you bought from will probably be selling albinos for $500.

Sometimes, the lowest price on the block isn't always the best thing if you're looking to make the maximum amount of money back on your investment.

Just some food for thought.

-adam