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It just comes down to some animals should be left wild and seen in zoos but not in individuals homes.
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The Following User Says Thank You to MR Snakes For This Useful Post:
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Re: OMG disaster.
Originally Posted by MR Snakes
It just comes down to some animals should be left wild and seen in zoos but not in individuals homes.
Responsible keepers can definitely keep them in their homes no problem. Some animals are more challenging to keep in homes, however, but I wouldn't give such a statement as you have ruling out all retic keepers.
Yes there are a lot of irresponsible keepers who impulse-buy the animals, but not every giant python keeper is like that.
I think that whatever you do, whether it is keeping them in your home or leaving that to zoos, even in the wild, we always have to remember that they are wild animals with instincts and need to be respected for the danger they present.
Not everyone is qualified or has a situation suited for keeping retics. Most people aren't, I would think. But while ruling out irresponsible-impulse buyers who don't respect the animal is okay, there are actual responsible keepers who do a great job and are very educated on said animals. I don't think there should be a blanket statement of "these animals aren't to be kept". Maybe "these animals pose a danger and aren't suited for most homes/keepers".
Having said that, accidents do happen sometimes (like with the OP). But how do you think experienced keepers became experienced in the first place? We all learn from our mistakes and I'm sure they will take more precautions next time.
Last edited by 55fingers; 01-20-2019 at 02:21 PM.
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The Following User Says Thank You to 55fingers For This Useful Post:
Craiga 01453 (01-21-2019)
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Re: OMG disaster.
Originally Posted by 55fingers
Responsible keepers can definitely keep them in their homes no problem. Some animals are more challenging to keep in homes, however, but I wouldn't give such a statement as you have ruling out all retic keepers.
Yes there are a lot of irresponsible keepers who impulse-buy the animals, but not every giant python keeper is like that.
I think that whatever you do, whether it is keeping them in your home or leaving that to zoos, even in the wild, we always have to remember that they are wild animals with instincts and need to be respected for the danger they present.
Not everyone is qualified or has a situation suited for keeping retics. Most people aren't, I would think. But while ruling out irresponsible-impulse buyers who don't respect the animal is okay, there are actual responsible keepers who do a great job and are very educated on said animals. I don't think there should be a blanket statement of "these animals aren't to be kept". Maybe "these animals pose a danger and aren't suited for most homes/keepers".
Having said that, accidents do happen sometimes (like with the OP). But how do you think experienced keepers became experienced in the first place? We all learn from our mistakes and I'm sure they will take more precautions next time.
I'm saying that it is rather murkey where you draw the line between zoo animals and home pets.
Last edited by MR Snakes; 01-20-2019 at 03:10 PM.
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Re: OMG disaster.
I love retics, absolutely awesome animals. I think I will just stay with handling my balls.
I’ve only been bit twice and both times it barely required a band-aid. Since balls don’t ever get bigger than 5 kilograms, I think I’m safe. They are mostly shy little wimps anyway.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Godzilla78 For This Useful Post:
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OP: Recent video by Reach Out Reptiles on how to get a retic to let go. I've never seen this technique before and find it fascinating... Hopefully you won't ever need to get a snake to let go again, but if so, this might come in handy. I wonder if this works with other species too. FYI go to ~2:35 to see what he does.
Currently keeping:
1.0 BCA 1.0 BCI
1.0 CA BCI 1.1 BCLs
0.1 BRB 1.2 KSBs
1.0 Carpet 0.5 BPs
0.2 cresteds 1.2 gargs
1.0 Leachie 0.0.1 BTS
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The Following User Says Thank You to artgecko For This Useful Post:
Craiga 01453 (01-21-2019)
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Re: OMG disaster.
Originally Posted by 55fingers
Responsible keepers can definitely keep them in their homes no problem. Some animals are more challenging to keep in homes, however, but I wouldn't give such a statement as you have ruling out all retic keepers.
Yes there are a lot of irresponsible keepers who impulse-buy the animals, but not every giant python keeper is like that.
I think that whatever you do, whether it is keeping them in your home or leaving that to zoos, even in the wild, we always have to remember that they are wild animals with instincts and need to be respected for the danger they present.
Not everyone is qualified or has a situation suited for keeping retics. Most people aren't, I would think. But while ruling out irresponsible-impulse buyers who don't respect the animal is okay, there are actual responsible keepers who do a great job and are very educated on said animals. I don't think there should be a blanket statement of "these animals aren't to be kept". Maybe "these animals pose a danger and aren't suited for most homes/keepers".
Having said that, accidents do happen sometimes (like with the OP). But how do you think experienced keepers became experienced in the first place? We all learn from our mistakes and I'm sure they will take more precautions next time.
I almost avoided responding to anything else being said till I read this.
I work hard to provide safe, healthy, quality of life for all my animals. I have studied and take the responsibility serious. I am far from an expert but have grown by leaps and bounds by caring for them and have no regrets on getting them.
Wild animals can't always be predictable. Happy my lesson was not learned under more tragic events and my animals are OK. Anyone who keeps reptiles should know to expect almost anything at anytime. They can and will keep you on your toes.
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Re: OMG disaster.
Originally Posted by Bogertophis
won't ever have a giant snake so that's no problem... I think they're a bit much as "pets", the same way I don't see lions replacing house cats.
No matter how magnificent, there comes a point where people either can't or don't control them, & "stuff happens". Anyway, I'm not the one who underestimated.
(& I have owned hots in the past for some 20 safe years, btw). .
Since there's a lot of giant snake ownership bashing going on here, I'll bite.
How the hell does one criticize person who owns a large constrictor and compares owning one to owning a lion, then go on to say "I've owned hots for 20 safe years"!?!?
I can probably survive a bite from a Burm, a Retic, a Boa....especially with help in the room. But I'll pass on something that may require $50,000 worth of antivenom flown in on a private jet that may or may not save your life. There is a small room for error with large constrictors, there is NONE for front fanged venomous. Period.
So much talk here, and so much of it from people who have never owned anything marginally large in size to begin with. Talk, talk, talk.
The guy had the balls to admit a single handling error, and the entire discussion turned into a seven page discussion about how irresponsible he is. A few of you, we are well aware of have owned snakes for 95+ years and have never made an error in owning them, we are reminded of your stellar records every day. Let it go people, gain some humility, and get back to your own animals.
Last edited by KevinK; 01-20-2019 at 07:20 PM.
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The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to KevinK For This Useful Post:
Alicia (01-20-2019),cletus (01-20-2019),Kira (01-21-2019),MissterDog (01-20-2019),redshepherd (01-20-2019),Sonny1318 (01-21-2019)
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Re: OMG disaster.
Originally Posted by KevinK
Since there's a lot of giant snake ownership bashing going on here, I'll bite.
How the hell does one criticize person who owns a large constrictor and compares owning one to owning a lion, then go on to say "I've owned hots for 20 safe years"!?!?
I can probably survive a bite from a Burm, a Retic, a Boa....especially with help in the room. But I'll pass on something that may require $50,000 worth of antivenom flown in on a private jet that may or may not save your life. There is a small room for error with large constrictors, there is NONE for front fanged venomous. Period.
So much talk here, and so much of it from people who have never owned anything marginally large in size to begin with. Talk, talk, talk.
The guy had the balls to admit a single handling error, and the entire discussion turned into a seven page discussion about how irresponsible he is. A few of you, we are well aware of have owned snakes for 95+ years and have never made an error in owning them, we are reminded of your stellar records every day. Let it go people, gain some humility, and get back to your own animals.
LOL......but true.
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Re: OMG disaster.
Originally Posted by KevinK
Since there's a lot of giant snake ownership bashing going on here, I'll bite.
How the hell does one criticize person who owns a large constrictor and compares owning one to owning a lion, then go on to say "I've owned hots for 20 safe years"!?!?
I can probably survive a bite from a Burm, a Retic, a Boa....especially with help in the room. But I'll pass on something that may require $50,000 worth of antivenom flown in on a private jet that may or may not save your life. There is a small room for error with large constrictors, there is NONE for front fanged venomous. Period....
FYI, I don't advocate private ownership of either giant snakes OR hots, but since you took issue with my comments (which were NOT aimed at "bashing" the OP & were
taken out of context) I shall try to further explain what I meant. The "disaster" that started this thread arose because the OP was unable to restrain his still-growing
giant snake from attacking another nearby, due to it's size, strength & element of surprise for which he was unprepared. Yes, all of us who keep snakes or other animals
get surprised at times by what our animals do, but we ARE expected to have our pets under control at all times. I compared such a giant snake to the idea of having a
lion instead of a house cat for a pet, & I stand by that comparison: I know of some (very few) people who seem able to relate to such large cats, but in no way can any-
one physically control such an animal if it wants to misbehave. How is that different from a giant snake? It's not. They are both wild animals with minds of their own.
Yes, I kept hots for some 20 years in the past. They were NEVER on my "wish list"...quite the opposite. But I lived in an area where there were 6 kinds of rattlesnakes
locally that entered people's property uninvited. For that transgression, they were often killed. As a snake-keeper, I wanted to help keep people safe (many bites happen
when inexperienced people try to take matters into their own hands) and to protect the snakes as well. I was never out catching local snakes (harmless OR venomous)
but often made myself available to rescue & re-locate wayward serpents. The only ones I kept were those unsuitable for relocation (injured, sick or in captivity by others
too long for legal release, per Fish & Game regulations) and I ended up giving local educational programs with them to promote understanding & conservation. At one
point, I was given some non-local hots for which I had to obtain a special (F&G) permit- such permits are not easy to get, and when they came to inspect my premises
I received high marks.
Both giant snakes and hots present special challenges to safe keeping, & in my opinion, more people are keeping them than should. I did NOT say that was true of Sky-
rivers, so don't put words in my mouth, OK? Giant snakes require physical strength & multiple people to handle safely, not to mention stronger caging, while hots have
their own risks which can be minimized by careful planning, using the safest methods, & the avoidance of distractions when working with them. Either way, there is no
room for mistakes that happen when we as keepers over-estimate our skills...& that usually takes some maturity & self-awareness. I don't personally know Skyrivers,
so opinions I've expressed in this thread aren't personally directed at the OP...they are the same opinions I've always had, & intended as part of the general discussion.
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The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bogertophis For This Useful Post:
55fingers (01-21-2019),bcr229 (01-21-2019)
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Re: OMG disaster.
Originally Posted by Bogertophis
FYI, I don't advocate private ownership of either giant snakes OR hots, but since you took issue with my comments (which were NOT aimed at "bashing" the OP & were
taken out of context) I shall try to further explain what I meant. The "disaster" that started this thread arose because the OP was unable to restrain his still-growing
giant snake from attacking another nearby, due to it's size, strength & element of surprise for which he was unprepared. Yes, all of us who keep snakes or other animals
get surprised at times by what our animals do, but we ARE expected to have our pets under control at all times. I compared such a giant snake to the idea of having a
lion instead of a house cat for a pet, & I stand by that comparison: I know of some (very few) people who seem able to relate to such large cats, but in no way can any-
one physically control such an animal if it wants to misbehave. How is that different from a giant snake? It's not. They are both wild animals with minds of their own.
Yes, I kept hots for some 20 years in the past. They were NEVER on my "wish list"...quite the opposite. But I lived in an area where there were 6 kinds of rattlesnakes
locally that entered people's property uninvited. For that transgression, they were often killed. As a snake-keeper, I wanted to help keep people safe (many bites happen
when inexperienced people try to take matters into their own hands) and to protect the snakes as well. I was never out catching local snakes (harmless OR venomous)
but often made myself available to rescue & re-locate wayward serpents. The only ones I kept were those unsuitable for relocation (injured, sick or in captivity by others
too long for legal release, per Fish & Game regulations) and I ended up giving local educational programs with them to promote understanding & conservation. At one
point, I was given some non-local hots for which I had to obtain a special (F&G) permit- such permits are not easy to get, and when they came to inspect my premises
I received high marks.
Both giant snakes and hots present special challenges to safe keeping, & in my opinion, more people are keeping them than should. I did NOT say that was true of Sky-
rivers, so don't put words in my mouth, OK? Giant snakes require physical strength & multiple people to handle safely, not to mention stronger caging, while hots have
their own risks which can be minimized by careful planning, using the safest methods, & the avoidance of distractions when working with them. Either way, there is no
room for mistakes that happen when we as keepers over-estimate our skills...& that usually takes some maturity & self-awareness. I don't personally know Skyrivers,
so opinions I've expressed in this thread aren't personally directed at the OP...they are the same opinions I've always had, & intended as part of the general discussion.
So in summary:
Owning a large constrictor is just like owning a lion because they cannot be controlled, even though you personally have owned a large female BCI in the past (per your own words in other posts). .....odd
You have given educational programs with hots and homed them, yet still maintain the position that a large constrictor like a Retic can never be controlled and is the more dangerous animal compared to a rattlesnake. .....odd
See now this where it gets interesting though....because in your own words (once again on your other posts) you have been keeping snakes in general for approx 25 years, yet have owned hots for 20 some odd years. Meaning you were keeping rattlesnakes after a mere five years of owning colubrids....that's quite the transition. Would you advocate for someone owning hots after five years of owning rat snakes?.....because I wouldn't. Why do most of your posts involve very opinionated subjects which sometimes you are not qualified for, and then when someone questions it you always make a "we in the herp community" type of bonding statement to try and get out of it? If you don't like large constrictors, and think they're super dangerous and owning them is more reckless than owning a front fanged venomous animal....then stop commenting in the giant snakes forum rather frequently, and stop assuring people they're a species that cannot be dealt with safely. We already went through the Lacey Act because of unnecessary fear of large constrictors (which some people here contributed good money to USARK to fight by the way), don't need to add fuel to that fire again because someone is out there keeping and showing the injured rattlesnakes in her neighbor's backyard but telling other people the Retics in a petstore are a much more dangerous species. Some of the restrictions from the act still remain by the way.
Last edited by KevinK; 01-21-2019 at 09:02 AM.
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